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Are unions to really blame for decrease in manufacturing?
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:21 pm
Seeing all of these threads about the car manufacturers and iPhones plants.
The common thread is that China, Mexico, and others just have cheap as frick labor that makes them so attractive to these companies.
The thing that is missing form these counties is organized labor. These unions are the root of these problem. I'm not saying that we should pay American workers $3 a day to make iPhones, but dear God $40+ an hour when you tack on insurance and benefits seems insane.
Perhaps some of these jobs should be lower wage jobs for the extreme poor, once they are properly trained. Gives them a decent paying job and then maybe you incentive them to take other technical classes to move on to the next level of job class and then bring in the next crop of poors to try and get them going.
The common thread is that China, Mexico, and others just have cheap as frick labor that makes them so attractive to these companies.
The thing that is missing form these counties is organized labor. These unions are the root of these problem. I'm not saying that we should pay American workers $3 a day to make iPhones, but dear God $40+ an hour when you tack on insurance and benefits seems insane.
Perhaps some of these jobs should be lower wage jobs for the extreme poor, once they are properly trained. Gives them a decent paying job and then maybe you incentive them to take other technical classes to move on to the next level of job class and then bring in the next crop of poors to try and get them going.
19
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:22 pm to Covingtontiger77
Not it is free trade. Most unions will reduce their cost if they are going to lose jobs. Look at how Ford has operated without gov't help.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:25 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
ot it is free trade. Most unions will reduce their cost if they are going to lose jobs. Look at how Ford has operated without gov't help
Not on a grand scale they won't. Unions aren't going to agree to cut worker wages to say $15 an hour. Further, Companies aren't going to pass up an opportunity to go to a country wherein you only have to pay $3 /hr and then ship said product into the USA where they make crazy returns on the cost of the goods to make.
This post was edited on 11/18/16 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:26 pm to Covingtontiger77
It's a factor for sure. No one wants to hear it, but manufacturing jobs are up big in Alabama. Guess what those plants don't have.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:27 pm to Covingtontiger77
I think the union mindset of not doing cross craft training had a large effect on moving production, and the union pushed that because the more people the plant employed, the more dues were coming into their coffers. Some of the employees could not see the forest for the trees and ultimately priced themselves out of a job. The question is would you rather make $38 and have a job or push for $40 and be unemployed with no job and limited number of job options.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:27 pm to Covingtontiger77
I've read that the largest factor in the decline in manufacturing jobs is automation. Not an expert though.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:28 pm to Covingtontiger77
Unions are part of the problem but most of the "blame" can be laid on technology. One can argue their high wages expedited the move towards outsourcing and replacement technology.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:28 pm to Covingtontiger77
Unions were a huge problem.
It's why manufacturing originally fled to the south. Then NAFTA fricked all of us.
Unions propped up inflated wages and duplicate jobs. Lots of stories of union guys in auto factories only having to work 4 hours a day because the union conract demanded 2 employees for a position that only required one. Both would clock in, one would work a couple hours, the other guy would take over for a couple hours til lunch, after lunch the first guy worked a couple more hours, then went and ran errands or went home and came back and clocked out at shift change.
Greed of the unions gave the companies all the motivation they needed to get away from them. Right to work states were first but once that pull of greed and enormous riches is there nothing but more profit becomes the motivator.
It's why manufacturing originally fled to the south. Then NAFTA fricked all of us.
Unions propped up inflated wages and duplicate jobs. Lots of stories of union guys in auto factories only having to work 4 hours a day because the union conract demanded 2 employees for a position that only required one. Both would clock in, one would work a couple hours, the other guy would take over for a couple hours til lunch, after lunch the first guy worked a couple more hours, then went and ran errands or went home and came back and clocked out at shift change.
Greed of the unions gave the companies all the motivation they needed to get away from them. Right to work states were first but once that pull of greed and enormous riches is there nothing but more profit becomes the motivator.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:29 pm to Covingtontiger77
It's all intertwined.
Unions had their place but largely exist now to make the unions heads richer.
Unions had their place but largely exist now to make the unions heads richer.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:29 pm to Covingtontiger77
I would think taxes and red tape are up there also. Labor cost are defiantly a factor, but there are other factors as well...
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:29 pm to VOLhalla
Automation varies from industry to industry. Auto manufacturing yes, but something along the lines of a paper maker then not really.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:35 pm to Perrydawg
quote:
Automation varies from industry to industry. Auto manufacturing yes, but something along the lines of a paper maker then not really
Mercedes is in the process of a 1.5 million square foot expansion. This will be the third, and largest, expansion to date. Along with that, all the supporting plants are expanding. It's a huge deal.
Edit to say that Mercedes is in Tuscaloosa.
This post was edited on 11/18/16 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:36 pm to Covingtontiger77
solely? no. They are a factor.
I would submit that workplaces rules/regs, as well as environmental rules/regs (e.g., CAFE standards), are the greater culprit.
I would submit that workplaces rules/regs, as well as environmental rules/regs (e.g., CAFE standards), are the greater culprit.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:38 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
Are unions to really blame for decrease in manufacturing?
Depends on the industry how much of a contributing factor labor problems caused on the overall competitiveness of the business.
For the auto industry....I think the UAW in particular has earned a significant amount of blame for some of the problems with the auto industry. They were an incredibly powerful cancer for a long time and not the least bit concerned with what they were doing to their hosts.
For steel, I think labor issues are a contributing factor within a perfect storm of raw material supply problems, global production over capaccity (namely China), aging domestic mills, environmental regulation, and some very unfair trade practices.
I used to work for a Fortune 500 manufacturing company. They closed down pretty big facilities due to regulatory pressure on older coal-fired boilers. A lot was retrofitted to use biomass and natural gas, but it was cost prohibitive to move from coal in some places. Huge facilities were shut down in the last 5 years that resulted in thousands of lost jobs in both the south and mid west. The Obama administration went after coal pretty hard especially around 2012 or so. Rolling some of that back may not push manufacturers to fire up those old boilers and reopen their lines....but it could help stop us from bleeding.
This post was edited on 11/18/16 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:40 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Not it is free trade
There are many reasons for the decrease in manufacturing, free trade is one, automation is another, unions have some culpability as well.
quote:
Most unions will reduce their cost if they are going to lose jobs.
That's a stretch. The reason most manufacturing is moving to the southern states is because they are right to work states.
Free trade is not the enemy here, the enemy is a US government that continues to promote policies that make the US less competitive in the world market. Two policies that would help help manufacturing would be a national right to work law, and a border adjusted tax policy.
This post was edited on 11/18/16 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:44 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
Are unions to really blame for decrease in manufacturing?
Yes. Unions, overregulaion and high taxes.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:45 pm to Covingtontiger77
They have been part of the problem
When the union demands that the woman that does absolutely nothing but snap blades on windshield wipers deserves $45 hr......
When the union demands that the woman that does absolutely nothing but snap blades on windshield wipers deserves $45 hr......
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:45 pm to Covingtontiger77
It's case by case. The GM plant closed in Shreveport due to union wages that were waaaay above the skill levels of the workers.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:49 pm to Covingtontiger77
I'll repeat, for seemingly the millionth time, that the United States, right here and right now in 2016, manufactures more in both real dollars and in tonnage than it ever has in its history.
Automation killed those jobs far, far, far more than anything else.
Automation killed those jobs far, far, far more than anything else.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 2:50 pm to Covingtontiger77
Cheap as frick labor and they devalue their currency.
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