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A Case for better schools. Break them up... reverse consolidation

Posted on 4/20/17 at 11:37 pm
Posted by MButterfly
Quantico
Member since Oct 2015
6860 posts
Posted on 4/20/17 at 11:37 pm
This is a secondary discussion in the Drug War thread. I thought it needed to be it's own topic.

LINK
quote:


School consolidation continues to be a topic of great concern for many small rural school and districts. While advocates for consolidation commonly cite fiscal imperatives based upon economies of scale, opponents have responded with evidence undermining this argument and pointing out the prominent position of the rural school in the economic and social development of community. Additionally, evidence continues to build demonstrating the advantages of small schools in attaining higher levels of student achievement.

Larger schools, in contrast, have been shown to increase transportation costs, raise dropout rates, lower student involvement in extra-curricular activities, and harm rural communities’ sense of place. Despite this, the prevailing notion of streamlining school districts and reducing expenditures through consolidation remains strong.


I have been in some schools that it would be impossible to monitor everything going on.

I believe an answer to the failing school system should include a reversal of consolidation.

quote:

. Indeed, in the largest jurisdictions, efficiencies have likely been exceeded—that is, some consolidation has produced diseconomies of scale that reduce efficiency. In such cases, deconsolidation is more likely to yield benefits than consolidation. Moreover, contemporary research does not support claims about the widespread benefits of consolidation. The assumptions behind such claims are most often dangerous oversimplifications. For example, policymakers may believe “We’ll save money if we reduce the number of superintendents by consolidating districts;” however, larger districts need—and usually hire—more mid-level administrators. Research also suggests that impoverished regions in particular often benefit from smaller schools and districts, and they can suffer irreversible damage if consolidation occurs.


PDF ...

The first chart in the link above shows that we went from 120K school districts in 1931 to below 20K by the end of the Century.

Chart 2 shows the number of schools vs the number of students per year.

The height of about 250K schools in the 1930s dropped to about 75K at the end of the century. However the student population went up from 250K to 500K by the end of the century.

I would love to see the timeline of our ranking throughout this process. In fact, I would like to see the amount of time students are spending in school throughout the year vs that time line.

This post was edited on 4/20/17 at 11:38 pm
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
43337 posts
Posted on 4/20/17 at 11:38 pm to
#INB4RAYSISS
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35237 posts
Posted on 4/20/17 at 11:49 pm to
I think that the school size effects is largely moderated by other variables. Bill Gates saw the same research and focused on smaller schools with minimal results.

The issue is that large schools tend to be in large, urban populations with lower SES. Making them smaller is not going to change those variables.
Posted by cave canem
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
12186 posts
Posted on 4/20/17 at 11:58 pm to
This needs to be done ASAP, consolidated schools are the sum of the worst parts.
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12096 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 12:16 am to
I've been saying for years that we need to go back to the "local school house" system of the past. The kind you see in shows like When Calls the Heart. One teacher who lives in the same local as her students, maybe 20 kids max, everyone in the same room, teacher truly knows all of her students, same students/teacher for years, parents and teacher has a close relationship causing students and parents to be far more involved, and so on... And with today's tech and global internet, I think it would actually be more effective than it was in the past.

That's all you really need up to the high school level. Then have high school set up to either prepare the student for a trade, a 2 year general education, or intensive college prep.

There are very very few kids that would need special attention before high school (special or gifted) and those few kids could attend class at a more centralized school.

As far a sports, get the schools out of that expensive arse shite and let kids play on local community teams.

That's just my opinion on the issue.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
53469 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 12:48 am to
Why are you trying to ruin football???

Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32538 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 6:55 am to
quote:

rban populations with lower SES. Making them smaller is not going to change those variables.

True; however, smaller school would change the teacher to student ratio which is always a positive. It increases commmunity support and involvement which is always a positive.
Posted by PoundFoolish
East Texas
Member since Jul 2016
3724 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 6:59 am to
With the HUGE (and getting larger) increase in homeschool and other alternatives, look for education to become more stratified in the next five years, especially if "extracurricular" continues to develop itself outside of the ISD paradigm.
Posted by PoundFoolish
East Texas
Member since Jul 2016
3724 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 7:29 am to
quote:

I've been saying for years that we need to go back to the "local school house" system of the past. The kind you see in shows like When Calls the Heart. One teacher who lives in the same local as her students, maybe 20 kids max, everyone in the same room, teacher truly knows all of her students, same students/teacher for years, parents and teacher has a close relationship causing students and parents to be far more involved, and so on... And with today's tech and global internet, I think it would actually be more effective than it was in the past.

That's all you really need up to the high school level. Then have high school set up to either prepare the student for a trade, a 2 year general education, or intensive college prep.

There are very very few kids that would need special attention before high school (special or gifted) and those few kids could attend class at a more centralized school.

As far a sports, get the schools out of that expensive arse shite and let kids play on local community teams.

That's just my opinion on the issue.


I agree with this wholeheartedly . . . "schools" are no longer scholastically-oriented. Most are daycare centers at best. Teacher's unions have got to go.
Posted by Haughton99
Haughton
Member since Feb 2009
6124 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 7:55 am to
Smaller school are better. Having more schools to keep them small is very expensive. That's why it'll never happen in the most of the south where the majority see any and all gov't spending as evil.

I lived in Frisco, Tx. while is was the fastest growing city in the US. The city leaders decided that they wanted to start building new high schools to keep up with the growth so that no high school would get above 3A. They had to pass a GIGANTIC school tax to fund this initiative but it passed fairly easily.

Now Frisco has several new high schools and they are all very high performing schools.

Takes money but it works.
Posted by PoundFoolish
East Texas
Member since Jul 2016
3724 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 7:58 am to
quote:

Now Frisco has several new high schools and they are all very high performing schools.

Takes money but it works.



It works in Frisco because the money (property tax) stays in the community. Try the same thing in Dallas or FW and see what happens.
Posted by offshoretrash
Farmerville, La
Member since Aug 2008
10177 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 8:01 am to
If the teachers started getting paid based on their students test scores this would all change.
Posted by Haughton99
Haughton
Member since Feb 2009
6124 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 8:13 am to
quote:

It works in Frisco because the money (property tax) stays in the community. Try the same thing in Dallas or FW and see what happens.


I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Property taxes in Dallas and Fort Worth also stay in Dallas and Fort Worth and both of those cities can and do pass school initiatives to pay for schools.

I used Frisco as an example because the school tax that passed was massive and the goal was to keep schools small and I was living there at the time.
Posted by Haughton99
Haughton
Member since Feb 2009
6124 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 8:16 am to
quote:

If the teachers started getting paid based on their students test scores this would all change.


Scholastic achievement is a result of parenting and genetics way more than the teacher's ability. If a system like you propose ever happened it would be almost impossible to find teachers for inner city schools which would make those schools even worse.
Posted by Quidam65
Q Continuum
Member since Jun 2010
19307 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:16 am to
quote:

Why are you trying to ruin football???


It's already getting ruined at the HS level.

If a student-athlete has potential for D1-level sports, s/he will either "transfer" into a district with a high level of success (down here in DFW, for football that would be Allen, Southlake Carroll, or Desoto), a private school (bigger issue up north), or go someplace like IMG Academy.
Posted by Machine
Earth
Member since May 2011
6001 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:19 am to
need to start putting kids that aren't college material into some kind of trade intro program while still in high school.

need more skilled workers, not college dropouts
This post was edited on 4/21/17 at 9:19 am
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
23711 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:55 am to
I 100% agree with this approach. But do you know why the high teacher-student ratios exist? Funding. You have to invest in education to get to this point. You can't cut taxes every day like some kind of Hare Krishna chant, "cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes" and have quality institutions.

How many times have you heard Republicans say, "You can't just throw more money at education and expect better results." There is the problem.

You can do this. You can get results that will be transformative for society as a whole. But you do need to dedicate resources, money, taxes, to get it done.
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
23711 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:58 am to
quote:

If the teachers started getting paid based on their students test scores this would all change.


WRONG. If teachers get paid based upon student test scores than no teacher would ever take a job in an underperforming school or impoverished area, leading to further depression.
This is an abandonment of the underperforming students, not a formula to improve them.
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25196 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:58 am to
I will admit, I'm a big fan of smaller schools. My graduating class was only 78 people and all but two of us went on to college. One of the two who didn't was drafted by the Twins in baseball and the other was a mechanical genius and was a NASCAR pit chief last I heard.

Smaller schools are more expensive, but I think you get a much better education when all of the teachers know all of the students.
Posted by MButterfly
Quantico
Member since Oct 2015
6860 posts
Posted on 4/21/17 at 10:28 am to
quote:

to keep up with the growth so that no high school would get above 3A.


Interesting size to stop at.


quote:

They had to pass a GIGANTIC school tax to fund this initiative


I want to say that I read within the links that the schools pay for themselves in X years from the money saved in things like transportation cost.... and welfare to support those that drop out... etc.


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