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Message
re: 71% say Iraq wasn't worth it
Posted on 6/26/14 at 12:58 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 6/26/14 at 12:58 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Crafty one, that W.
ETA: I guess my point is that the intelligence was, generally, wrong - at least about a modern and expansive WMD - (certainly no one seriously disputes he had large stockpiles of Soviet-era weapons, correct?) - but wrong intelligence does not necessarily mean "trumped up" or "cooked books" - it means - and I've made no secret of this - our human intelligence capability has been seriously degraded since the Church hearings in the late 70s. That is the biggest deficiency in filling the gap with what our massive technical intelligence capabilities cannot provide.
Damn, Ace - you are killing it today
All these Monday morning QB's whining make me want to
2
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:07 pm to ChineseBandit58
I'm sticking with Rand on this one. We were led into Iraq by Cheney so he and his business partners could benefit financially. All about the $$$
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:14 pm to AUbused
quote:
22% think the war was worth it? Who ARE these people???
Please link to what the M.E. would look like now if we had not taken down Saddam.
T.I.A.
If you cannot do that, then you cannot refute what those 22% think.
I have changed my mind on the situation - using hindsight - that because of Obama abandoning all the gains we made in the area, effectively squandering the blood and treasure we paid, that now it may truly have not been worth it.
I am not convinced that what Obama has allowed to eventuate is not worse than what it was before.
Hell, maybe we should have just shrugged off the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon, licked our wounds and hoped that Saddam would point his WMD at someone else.
But of course all of you NOW know that there were no WMDs all along. DAMN I wish some of you had shared that info with Britain, France, and our own intelligence services. Maybe an awful mistake could have been avoided.
I will always wonder why you didn't show up with your evidence that there were no WMD back when it counted. Just boggles my mind. Why did you withhold your information?? That is almost treasonous - that you valued eventually being able to say "i knew it all along" more than saving thousands of lives and trillions of dollars by proactively trying to save a great disaster.
sleep well, sire.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:17 pm to MJM
quote:
We were led into Iraq by Cheney so he and his business partners could benefit financially. All about the $$$
Now that is just pathetic - you demonstrate pure ignorance with such crap.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:18 pm to ChineseBandit58
If the MSM wasn't controlled by war profiteers more people would have realized it was a sham all along
This post was edited on 6/26/14 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:19 pm to MJM
quote:
If the MSM wasn't controlled by war profiteers more people would have realized it was a sham all along
you have been dismissed
begone,idiot.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:20 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
I will always wonder why you didn't show up with your evidence that there were no WMD back when it counted.
Why don't you prove there are no flying pink unicorns?
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:20 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Now that is just pathetic - you demonstrate pure ignorance with such crap.
I'm on my phone so not going to google you the exact quote by Rand in his speech but help yourself
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:22 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
you have been dismissed
begone,idiot.
Do a little research on what corporations own/control the MSM during the build-up to the war and then get back to me
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:25 pm to Rex
quote:
Why don't you prove there are no flying pink unicorns?
I have not alleged anything about unicorns, flying, or pink, or otherwise.
This thread is about people who just KNEW back then that there were no WMD, that all the intelligence was wrong, that removing Saddam's regime was a huge mistake that we should never have considered and that it was obvious what would happen if we went to war.
I want to know how they came to that conclusion without the exclusive benefit of hindsight.
try to keep up.
You are in that camp - perhaps you can provide your logic for reaching that conclusion beforehand.
tia.
eta - and please tell us what you did to lay out your information before the intelligence agencies of the countries trying piece all this together. You could have been a genuine hero - prevented this entire disaster.
You must have had some strong motive to allow those lives and treasure to be wasted. Was it that important to you to be able to call Bush a war criminal?
how do you sleep at night.
This post was edited on 6/26/14 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:27 pm to MJM
quote:
Do a little research on what corporations own/control the MSM during the build-up to the war and then get back to me
ChineseBandit58 won't do that. He's never been interested in the truth. I think he has a mancrush on Dick Cheney, because there's really no rational reason for him to deny the obvious. I've never seen somebody so determined to admit he was wrong ten years ago... it's a matter of pride and, like I've said, a probable mancrush.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:28 pm to ChineseBandit58
It's impossible to prove negative existence, you moron.
Mexicans have WMDs to be used against the USA. Prove that's not true. See how easy and ridiculous such a challenge is?
Mexicans have WMDs to be used against the USA. Prove that's not true. See how easy and ridiculous such a challenge is?
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:29 pm to Ace Midnight
Of course what you're leaving out is Clinton said that before Operation Desert Fox when we bombed the crap out of their facilities. 600 bombs and over 300 tomahawk missiles. LINK republicans apparently forgot about that since they claimed Clinton did it to take focus off his impeachment hearings. 
the UN weapons inspectors had also destroyed a lot before then.
the UN weapons inspectors had also destroyed a lot before then. Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:33 pm to Rex
I remember a press conference with Bush and Chirac when a fox reporter started a question with the false meme "Every country believed Saddam had WMD". Chirac stopped him mid sentence and told him he was wrong. The world didn't know. Not even the weapons inspectors said that. It was only the US and Britain who said that. Bush standing next to him was fuming.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:34 pm to Rex
quote:
Mexicans have WMDs to be used against the USA.
ho - hum.
Who is alleging that?
try to keep up here.
Several intelligence agencies,including our own, the prior administration, the entire congress, all had some evidence of WMD in Iraq.
Several of you on here proclaim NOW that you know THEN it was not true.
I have asked you all what information you had THEN that led you to that conclusion (proven right by the progress of time) THEN.
And furthermore, if you had such ironclad evidence or information or logic, why in hell did you not relay it to the intelligence agencies involved - or at least to you own fricking congressmen who were beating the drums for taking out Saddam. Don't you think Hillary Clinton, or John Kerry would have been interested??
Can you do that?
if not STFU.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:35 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
71% say Iraq wasn't worth it
Because we got nothing out of it. No client state, no cheaper oil, nothing.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:36 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
This thread is about people who just KNEW back then that there were no WMD, that all the intelligence was wrong, that removing Saddam's regime was a huge mistake that we should never have considered and that it was obvious what would happen if we went to war.
Yep, many prominent Democrats, Clinton, John Kerry, etc., made now infamous speeches supporting the war in Iraq. AS you say, hiney sight is always 20/20. But what is clear is that Obama's management of foreign affairs has been and is a clusterfrick largely due to his delusional world view.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:39 pm to ChineseBandit58
Entire Congress? The vote in the House on the Iraq War Resolution was 82-126 Democrats. Most voted against it. The Senate Dems of course had no spine and went 29-21.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:39 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
Yep, many prominent Democrats, Clinton, John Kerry, etc., made now infamous speeches supporting the war in Iraq. AS you say, hiney sight is always 20/20.
Hell they were all on board - there were maybe two or three pacifists in all things that were not against it - but not because they disbelieved the intelligence reports. they were just against war. period.
The Clintonistas were even moaning that they wish this had happened during Clinton's term so he could have been a real 'war president.'
btw - To all you smarmy liars - I happen to know the above statement is true. Prove I am wrong.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:46 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
they claimed Clinton did it to take focus off his impeachment hearings.
I never claimed that (and that was the scandal, I think). I think he did Kosovo to take the focus off his impeachment hearings.
Iraq was legitimate - Saddam Hussein was a legimate, old school bad guy - the world is a better place without him.
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