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Why are women rarely more than distractions in major films
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:20 pm
As a general rule, not the exceptions. I read a critic recently that made a comment about important directors that have an almost aversion to casting females in important roles PTA, scorsese, etc. What is the theory on this?
Surely its not for lack of talent pool. some of these directors can take virtual unknown and direct them to critical acclaim. Is acting in important dramatic work a mans world? I know we bring up regularly films and series where a central female character hurts the story or likeability
Obviously you have some that will go out of their way to cast lead roles for women it seems like. tarantino, coens. But that feels contrived alot of times and almost reinforces the point
Surely its not for lack of talent pool. some of these directors can take virtual unknown and direct them to critical acclaim. Is acting in important dramatic work a mans world? I know we bring up regularly films and series where a central female character hurts the story or likeability
Obviously you have some that will go out of their way to cast lead roles for women it seems like. tarantino, coens. But that feels contrived alot of times and almost reinforces the point
9
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:25 pm to Chef Leppard
They're not. Get out, Marxist.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:26 pm to Chef Leppard
Women are usually the main character in horror movies.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:32 pm to Chef Leppard
I think the writers/directors focus too much on writing "female charcters" instead of just writing "characters.
An interesting recent example is Black Widow from the Marvel movies, here character is handled and portrayed drastically different from Iron Man 2 to The Avengers to The Winter Soldier. Joss Whedon is, arguably, one of the best at writing strong female characters so the presentation of that character is a departure from her presentation in the other films.
James Cameron is another writer/director that is gifted when it comes to strong female characters.
An interesting recent example is Black Widow from the Marvel movies, here character is handled and portrayed drastically different from Iron Man 2 to The Avengers to The Winter Soldier. Joss Whedon is, arguably, one of the best at writing strong female characters so the presentation of that character is a departure from her presentation in the other films.
James Cameron is another writer/director that is gifted when it comes to strong female characters.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:34 pm to Chef Leppard
Rosamund Pike is the last woman to hold it down in a female lead role for some time now. The talent is out there, but the scripts are not.
Does Zoe Saldana count for Avatar? Zoe is so underrated it's not even funny.
Does Zoe Saldana count for Avatar? Zoe is so underrated it's not even funny.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:45 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
I think the writers/directors focus too much on writing "female charcters" instead of just writing "characters
Not sure i know what that means.
Tarantino is one that seems to bend the script for female roles until the film suffers at times. making them a cartoonish instrument of vengeance. the coens with francis mcdormand was always painful to me
Did merryl streep,barbara streisand, jodie foster etc exhaust movie goers with all the over-acted dramatic roles of the 80s and 90s?
Maybe i shouldve started a thread
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:05 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
I think the writers/directors focus too much on writing "female charcters" instead of just writing "characters.
First, this.
What happens is that a female character becomes defined by her own feminity, therefore far more narrow of a character. It's not that we shouldn't write feminity into female roles, but that femininity should augment, not BECOME the character in most cases. People, in general, don't want to see "gendered" characters. They want to see characters. Unless defining/critiquing femininity is a part of the film (something like Mean Girls or Pretty Woman) then it should just be a character, not a "feminine" character.
This is exactly why Ripley is such a great character. You could put a man there and the film wouldn't change. I'd argue the same goes for John McClane, put a woman in there and the film doesn't really change.
That's not to say that we've moved somewhere culturally that makes a shift like this possible, there are now plenty of subconscious reasons why things can or can't work. But at the core, I think people want to watch good characters.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:24 pm to Chef Leppard
I really don't even think I agree with your premise.
Jennifer Lawrence has put in some great work recently. Hell, there's loads of great women's roles, just not in action films as much.
I'm thinking about the best films I've seen recently, and there were plenty of quality female roles.
Jennifer Lawrence has put in some great work recently. Hell, there's loads of great women's roles, just not in action films as much.
I'm thinking about the best films I've seen recently, and there were plenty of quality female roles.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:26 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
a female character becomes defined by her own feminity, therefore far more narrow of a character.
Therin lies the rub i think. Its a reflection of real life in that adult females are often encumbered by things men are not. And to write them diferently forces a sense of disbelief alot of times
Its seems like its dificult to write a female part where maternal issues, love interests, matters of the heart are not part of what makes them interesting. Which gets monotonous and uninteresting. Men can be portrayed as far more complex due to things like unhinged ambition, vengeance, violence, leadership, etc. Not that women cant possess those qualities, but history and gender roles hasnt allowed for it often
Its impossible to answer without a seriously chauvinist angle it seems like
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:32 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
Jennifer Lawrence has put in some great work recently.
And she has been accused of overacting roles and taking away from the film
There are so many more major movies where theres barely a female in sight that its crazy when you think about it
I didnt think i needed to specify romantic comedies, horror, chick flicks
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:33 pm to Chef Leppard
quote:
Therin lies the rub i think. Its a reflection of real life in that adult females are often encumbered by things men are not.
To me there's a difference between having a female character, and one that is defined by her femininity solely. In that, I think it's a razor's edge between the two but possible to have different effects. That's kind of why I brought up Ripley and McClane. 80's movies. Non-gendered characters, you could see either gender in either role. But is Alien better BECAUSE of Ripley? Of course, but that's because she makes Ripley a well rounded character, not JUST a feminine one. Make sense?
quote:
And to write them diferently forces a sense of disbelief alot of times
I do agree with this however, that's why I mentioned whether or not completely reframing a female character is maybe impossible. Social constructs are there and tough to break on a societal level.
quote:
Its seems like its dificult to write a female part where maternal issues, love interests, matters of the heart are not part of what makes them interesting.
I don't think it's more difficult, I just think the crutch is to write females like "females." I also think some people are afraid of well rounded women....and by that I mean women. Who are romantic comedies for where
quote:are at the focus?
maternal issues, love interests, matters of the heart
quote:
Its impossible to answer without a seriously chauvinist angle it seems like
Only to folks who don't want to have a discussion.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:34 pm to Chef Leppard
quote:
. the coens with francis mcdormand was always painful to me
Whoa, what?
I'm outta here. Your thread sucks.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:36 pm to Chef Leppard
Kill Bill I and II FTW.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:44 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
That's kind of why I brought up Ripley and McClane. 80's movies. Non-gendered characters, you could see either gender in either role.
Alien is basically a slasher horror movie in space. Those typically have female protagonists. Plus there's all the rape undertones. Aliens has strong maternal undertones. I don't think those movies would have worked quite as well with a male protagonist. As for Die Hard, I don't think general audiences want to see a violent action movie starring a woman. I know I don't. Not to say it can't be good, just that it won't be a big hit.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:46 pm to Chef Leppard
Ask the "talented" Margot Robbie.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 6:42 pm to Chef Leppard
Because most people don't find female characters intriguing our interesting.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 6:47 pm to Chef Leppard
I would just ask to count the female directors and the male ones.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:07 pm to Freauxzen
quote:quote:
maternal issues, love interests, matters of the heart
are at the focus?
No. Its just invariably what drives them in film most of the time. And in serious films it just seems like directors and writers dispense with the tedium of it almost. That all women normally seem to do is distract the "main characters" from their cause or trajectory
I know there are exceptions. And we're saying much of the same thing. It just seems like we departed from the age of leading men and all male casts for a period and then went back again. For a time women carried a fair amount of the heavy lifting ,even when they werent the lead characters
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