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re: Joe Namath was a very, very overrated quarterback in the 60's and 70's...
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:49 pm to DelU249
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:49 pm to DelU249
quote:Quick question:
Fox Mulder
Let's say Drew Brees finished 2015 with 6,500 yards passing, 40 touchdowns, 50 interceptions, a completion percentage of 60% and the New Orleans Saints finished somewhere around 7-9...
How satisfied would you be?
2
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:50 pm to TTsTowel
Did you ever see the guy play? I know I sure as hell didn't so I trust the word of the people who did. The people who saw him play were impressed enough by his abilities to stick him into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Bill Walsh and Don Shula both have nothing but praise for the guy. Two of the greatest coaches in the history of the game right there. Neither of them known for mincing words. It seems you are in denial and are unable to put his stats in their proper context.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:51 pm to TTsTowel
I'm not, I find your opinion to be preposterous. What's ironic is that numbers actually prove how great he was.
Attempts over 20, 30, 40 yards
Number of attempts
In terms of completion percentage the diminishing rate of returns (so to speak) was much greater the further you threw in that NFL (versus the bullshite 2014 league), relative to his contemporaries. Using relative stats, today he'd be a 65% passer as a guy leading the league in attempts and throwing it deep more than any other passer by a long shot
Attempts over 20, 30, 40 yards
Number of attempts
In terms of completion percentage the diminishing rate of returns (so to speak) was much greater the further you threw in that NFL (versus the bullshite 2014 league), relative to his contemporaries. Using relative stats, today he'd be a 65% passer as a guy leading the league in attempts and throwing it deep more than any other passer by a long shot
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:52 pm to TTsTowel
quote:
Let's say Drew Brees finished 2015 with 6,500 yards passing, 40 touchdowns, 50 interceptions, a completion percentage of 60% and the New Orleans Saints finished somewhere around 7-9...
There you go again. Just looking at stats and not placing them in their proper context. Do the DBs going down field with Bree's WRs have the ability to maul them all the way down the field? Has the underneath passing route been invented yet?
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:53 pm to RollTide1987
quote:For the 5th time, yes, I saw some games. Not many, but some.
Did you ever see the guy play?
quote:The OP is pretty straight forward in shedding negative light on his career.
It seems you are in denial and are unable to put his stats in their proper context.
His Super Bowl win and MVP is awesome and he had a couple good years, but he is overrated from a historical standpoint.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:53 pm to RollTide1987
I used to think he was overrated especially since I was told how great he was, you look a little deeper, watch a few games (man those dudes were brutal) and you have a greater understanding
People shite on TErry Bradshaw too...pssssh
People shite on TErry Bradshaw too...pssssh
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:54 pm to RollTide1987
I'm wasting my time arguing with an Alabama fan. 
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:54 pm to TTsTowel
That's not how stats translate...sorry.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:08 pm to TTsTowel
quote:
For the 5th time, yes, I saw some games. Not many, but some.
I've seen some games of his, too. The 1968 AFL Championship Game and Super Bowl III were on YouTube not too long ago. Even I can claim that. But I can't judge his career based on a handful of games. I could watch a game from Joe Montana's 1983 season with the 49ers, without knowing anything about him, and come away unimpressed. At the same time I could watch a single game of Joe Flacco's, without knowing anything about him, and come away thinking he's the greatest QB to play the game.
quote:
The OP is pretty straight forward in shedding negative light on his career.
The OP, and yourself, are too obsessed with stats. Put some context to those stats for once in your lives. The AFL/NFL Namath played in is very different from the one Manning plays in.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:09 pm to DelU249
quote:Oh, please tell me how they should translate.
That's not how stats translate...sorry.
Should Joe Namath's touchdowns automatically go up, interceptions automatically go down, completion percentage automatically go up (dramatically) and winning percentage automatically go up as well?
As it stands, that is a stupid argument on "what ifs".
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:11 pm to iliveinabox
quote:Then why does he suck even compared to the other QBs in his era? Explain that
False, new school perspective of an old school goat.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:18 pm to TTsTowel
quote:
Oh, please tell me how they should translate.
Should Joe Namath's touchdowns automatically go up, interceptions automatically go down, completion percentage automatically go up (dramatically) and winning percentage automatically go up as well?
No, but the hypothetical #'s you threw up were stupid and now where close to a fair translation. The year Namath threw 28 INTs he had 491 att, thats 5.7%. Last year Brees threw 659 if he had a 5.7% INT rate that would be 37-38 INTs not 50, but again you seem to have completely ignored the changes in rules and general strategy that inflate passing numbers today
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:20 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:Ok so lets compare him to the qbs of his era, where he still wasnt even top 6
have completely ignored the changes in rules and general strategy that inflate passing numbers today
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:21 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:That was the whole point.
No, but the hypothetical #'s you threw up were stupid and now where close to a fair translation.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:24 pm to lsupride87
quote:From Namath's era, who do you think was a better QB?
Ok so lets compare him to the qbs of his era, where he still wasnt even top 6
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:25 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Ok so lets compare him to the qbs of his era, where he still wasnt even top 6
Top 6 in what? More statistical categories? Namath also wasn't like most other QBs in his era. When he was in his prime, most NFL teams consisted of a balanced running game with passing thrown in to keep the defense off balance. Namath and the New York Jets were the first team in the history of the game to make passing their offense. And these weren't simple underneath routes he would throw. Namath was known for throwing the ball 20, 30, 40, 50 yards down field on a consistent basis. And this was in an era where that kind of offense was made difficult due to the rules of the game at that time.
He was the first QB in the history of the game to throw 500 pass attempts in a season and the first QB in the history of the game to throw for 4,000 yards in a season. It would be almost 15 years before another QB (Dan Fouts) would break 4,000 yards.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:25 pm to lsupride87
I'm old enough to have seen him play with the AFL Jets in the pre merger days. I remember the white shoes and the long hair more than I remember any passing stats. As has been mentioned previously he was a slinger. And perhaps because of my age other than Don Maynard I couldn't tell you the name of another WR.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:29 pm to COTiger
quote:Maynard was great, a HOF'er. The others were nothing special. Matt Snell was a battering ram, but slow. Emerson Boozer was an average HB. George Sauer was an ok WR. I don't even remember who his TE was. Nor do I remember any of the OL.
I'm old enough to have seen him play with the AFL Jets in the pre merger days. I remember the white shoes and the long hair more than I remember any passing stats. As has been mentioned previously he was a slinger. And perhaps because of my age other than Don Maynard I couldn't tell you the name of another WR.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:34 pm to DelU249
quote:
Fox Mulder That's not how stats translate...sorry.
A lot of the stat comparison is difficult due to different rules/styles of plays in different eras. So we have to judge him by his peer group. And this stat from the OP is damning:
quote:
Lead the league in interceptions 4 times
That's pretty hard to defend. He's not just near the bottom of his peer group, he's AT the bottom four times.
Also, I found an interesting article that (ironically) was trying to defend Namath by "modernizing" his stats. They looked at his average among his contemporaries and put him among fellow QBs he played against.
Gang Green Nation
quote:
Completion percentage: In an average prime year, Namath's completion percentage was about 105.14% of the league average. In 2012, that would have been a completion percentage of 64.0%.
Yards per attempt: In an average prime year, Namath's yards per attempt average was about 113.71% of the league average. In 2012, that would have equated to an average of 8.07 yards per attempt.
Touchdowns: In an average prime year, Namath's touchdown pass rate was 103.28% of the league average. In 2012, that would have equated to a 4.44% touchdown rate.
Interceptions: In an average prime year, Namath's interception rate was 96.71% of the league average. In 2012, that would have equated to a 2.51% interception rate.
quote:
If Namath threw the average number of passes in 2012, his rates come out like this.
355/552; 24 TD; 13 INT; 4454 yards; 89.9 rating
As you can see, being at 105% means he was about 5% above the league average. In these critical stat categories, Namath was very average. Good? Maybe. You might could make that case. But HOF worthy? No way.
Look at his adjusted stat line for 2012. That's a little better than average for the modern era. Namath of the 1960s equals Jay Cutler of 2012.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:35 pm to LL012697
quote:
I can't think of any athlete who is more defined by one game or moment. He really got the mileage out of SB III
Two-time AFL player of the year, first player to throw for over 4,000 yards (14 game season).
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