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re: Klinsmann says USMNT doesn't prepare for camp
Posted on 2/4/15 at 7:37 am to StTiger
Posted on 2/4/15 at 7:37 am to StTiger
quote:
To bad wondo couldn't use his poaching skills against belgium
quote:
Hes athletic, no doubt, but i think he is one of those players that the manager, for some reason chooses, even though everyone else sees a better option
I don't like him at all and think LD or Boyd should have had that WC spot, but he's still a good athlete.
0
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:24 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
their athletes have much more of a soccer brain and are way more technical b/c much higher levels of training from a young age.
This is true, but it's not the whole truth. They are also working with the most talented, athletically gifted players their country produces. We are not. For example, Jozy Alitidore is not a great athlete. He is big, kind of fast, and looks good in a uniform. He doesn't have good feet or fluid hips, athletic traits that are much more important in soccer than having a bunch of muscles and being able to run fast in a straight line. But most people would assume by looking at him that he is an elite athlete. And when you factor in a lifetimes worth of soccer specific training and developing that soccer brain that our players sometimes lack, the results would be different.
quote:
Wondo isn't a bad athlete
Compared to other good players that play his position around the world, yes he is. It's not close.
quote:
The ability to maneuver around tight spaces and away from defenders during a cross or set piece def takes very good athletic ability. It would be comparable to a WR adjusting to a pass or someone grabbing a rebound.
True, but a guy like Wondo isn't in the same galaxy as the WR's or basketball players you will see playing professionally or even in college in the US. Now, if those guys were to grow up training and playing soccer their whole lives instead of football or basketball, as Wondo did, the story would be different. But alas, they do not.
quote:
Better athlete =/= better soccer player. Just ask anyone who have played. A technical team with not as much athleticism can run circles around a team full of athletes.
Not if the team full of better athletes are trained in the same way the team full of technical players are for their whole lives.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:42 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
They are also working with the most talented, athletically gifted players their country produces
Oh, FFS
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:43 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
This is true, but it's not the whole truth. They are also working with the most talented, athletically gifted players their country produces. We are not. For example, Jozy Alitidore is not a great athlete. He is big, kind of fast, and looks good in a uniform. He doesn't have good feet or fluid hips, athletic traits that are much more important in soccer than having a bunch of muscles and being able to run fast in a straight line. But most people would assume by looking at him that he is an elite athlete. And when you factor in a lifetimes worth of soccer specific training and developing that soccer brain that our players sometimes lack, the results would be different.
Soccer doesn't take crazy athletic ability like other sports. Some of the best teams and players are not crazy athletic. Guys like CR7 and Pogba are.
Some of the best athletes in Europe play Rugby
No matter how good an athlete is, things like touch esp first touch and the ability to place a ball are natural and basically can't be taught.
Thats why some people just can't juggle the ball even if they are a great athlete with good hand eye coordination.
quote:
Compared to other good players that play his position around the world, yes he is. It's not close.
The all time WC leading scorer Klose who is that same kind of poacher isn't that great of an athlete. The difference his skill and natural touch. He can also create his own chances
quote:
True, but a guy like Wondo isn't in the same galaxy as the WR's or basketball players you will see playing professionally or even in college in the US. Now, if those guys were to grow up training and playing soccer their whole lives instead of football or basketball, as Wondo did, the story would be different. But alas, they do not
If Wondo was offered a track scolly to UCLA he is every bit that type of athlete. Track athletes are pretty much the most elite in the world.
quote:
Not if the team full of better athletes are trained in the same way the team full of technical players are for their whole lives.
Nope all you have to do is look at the African teams.
This post was edited on 2/4/15 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:44 pm to StraightCashHomey21
there is absolutely no point in even participating in this conversation with that guy
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:47 pm to PTBob
The if our best athletes played argument is lazy and generally misinformed on the dynamics of the game. Esp regarding youth development.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 1:10 pm to PTBob
quote:
there is absolutely no point in even participating in this conversation with that guy
I gather that one part of his argument which generates so much back and forth is simply that, by his definition, John Stockton or Peyton Manning are elite athletes due to their coordination, vision etc.
It's certainly a valid point but, at the same time, one that expands the parameters of "elite athlete" so far that it turns the discussion toward apples and oranges.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 3:57 pm to wm72
quote:
Peyton Manning are elite athletes
Manning is in no way an elite athlete. He's an elite quarterback, yes, but athlete, no. I know you weren't really saying he was, but I had to get that straight haha.
IMO, athleticism is determined by someone's speed, agility, strength, jumping and frame and build for whatever sport it is they play. Lebron James is an elite athlete, because he could go and play football, no problem. Peyton Manning wouldn't thrive in any other sport other than football, just like 99% of most professional soccer players couldn't play another sport professionally either.
In soccer, an elite athlete, at least IMO, is someone like Lukaku or even Yedlin, because they can single-handedly beat a defender with an ability like speed or strength. Yedlin's technical ability is garbage, but he's at an above average premier league club because of his athleticism.
This post was edited on 2/4/15 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 2/4/15 at 4:24 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
Lebron James is an elite athlete, because he could go and play football, no problem
Yea but in soccer he would either be a GK or the american version of Peter Crouch.
quote:
In soccer, an elite athlete, at least IMO, is someone like Lukaku or even Yedlin, because they can single-handedly beat a defender with an ability like speed or strength. Yedlin's technical ability is garbage, but he's at an above average premier league club because of his athleticism.
But in soccer to be the best you don't need to be crazy athletic. CR7 is but Messi is more those natural talents of vision and touch. Then mixed with his quickness/ feet is deadly. His natural abilities wouldn't really translate to any other sport.
This post was edited on 2/4/15 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 2/4/15 at 4:26 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
99% of most professional soccer players couldn't play another sport professionally either
I know you're just talking about USMNT, but I think a lot of people are down playing how athletic those guys actually are. You don't get to that level if you're not a stud. That's why I hate it when people compare sports, because there are different training for different muscles. It's like a weight lifter calling a distance runner nonathletic.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 5:53 pm to FunkasaurusReb
Can we all agree that we wish OBJ3 still played soccer?
I'm willing to bet that many MLS players could make an NFL team. Kickers, punters... some even have size to go else where on the field (Adebayo Akinfenwa anybody?)
The argument is overplayed now anyway
I'm willing to bet that many MLS players could make an NFL team. Kickers, punters... some even have size to go else where on the field (Adebayo Akinfenwa anybody?)
The argument is overplayed now anyway
Posted on 2/4/15 at 6:17 pm to FunkasaurusReb
quote:
people are down playing how athletic those guys actually are.
These guys are definitely super athletic, I mean they're pros, they are in the upper echelon of athletes in the world,. I dont doubt that. Im just saying that IMO, to be "elite" in athleticism you can play and excel in just about any sport.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 6:20 pm to StraightCashHomey21
bruh
Posted on 2/4/15 at 7:21 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
Not if the team full of better athletes are trained in the same way the team full of technical players are for their whole lives.
I'm probably among those here a bit more receptive to your argument in some ways but my caveat would be that, while the USMNT would obviously be better with better training and a larger pool, there's no reason to say that it may not get less "athletic".
It may well be that some "athletes" along the lines of Totti or Pirlo or De Rossi take the place of Jones, Bradley, Yedlin or Altidore.
I simply say this because, living in Italy, playing a lot when I was younger and following a club there for 20 years, you so often see the kids like Florenzi or Destro "make it" while so many of the athletes everyone drools over don't even though everyone plays and the standouts all come through similar training.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:05 am to StTiger
quote:
Can we all agree that we wish OBJ3 still played soccer?
no
he could have easily not made it. Football was the correct choice.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 7:54 am to StraightCashHomey21
I'm going to wish all I want.
Or some US players needs to start imitating LeBron dunks to garner more attention
When's the last time anyone cared this much about a Giants WR in the offseason? When one shot himself in the leg at a club
If you (the royal you) wants to use the "the best athletes don't play soccer" argument, then getting a freak athlete OBJ is necessary to get national attention from the general public and ESPN for the three years between the world cup
Or some US players needs to start imitating LeBron dunks to garner more attention
When's the last time anyone cared this much about a Giants WR in the offseason? When one shot himself in the leg at a club
If you (the royal you) wants to use the "the best athletes don't play soccer" argument, then getting a freak athlete OBJ is necessary to get national attention from the general public and ESPN for the three years between the world cup
Posted on 2/5/15 at 7:58 am to StTiger
quote:
Or some US players needs to start imitating LeBron dunks to garner more attention
When's the last time anyone cared this much about a Giants WR in the offseason? When one shot himself in the leg at a club
If you (the royal you) wants to use the "the best athletes don't play soccer" argument, then getting a freak athlete OBJ is necessary to get national attention from the general public and ESPN for the three years between the world cup
Da frick?
Posted on 2/5/15 at 8:27 am to StTiger
quote:
I'm going to wish all I want.
Or some US players needs to start imitating LeBron dunks to garner more attention
quote:
When's the last time anyone cared this much about a Giants WR in the offseason? When one shot himself in the leg at a club
Everyone in the NFC east
quote:
If you (the royal you) wants to use the "the best athletes don't play soccer" argument, then getting a freak athlete OBJ is necessary to get national attention from the general public and ESPN for the three years between the world cup
My brain just exploded
Posted on 2/5/15 at 8:43 am to StraightCashHomey21
huh
Didnt think any of that warranted exploding brains or da fricks
Seems pretty clear to me, if you want to argue that us soccer is losing its best athletes to other sports, then you need a freak athlete to get the attention, be the hero so said kids would rather play up top in the bpl rather than be a wide receiver in the nfl
Must be a slow td day if that comment seemed so far fetched
I am not of the above opinion. Yes, I would rather OBJ, local boy, rising to the top of us soccer. Local pride and all that. But i dont agree we are losing players (edit: we are. I mean i dont agree that is the problem). We just havent developed some as well as we couldve
Didnt think any of that warranted exploding brains or da fricks
Seems pretty clear to me, if you want to argue that us soccer is losing its best athletes to other sports, then you need a freak athlete to get the attention, be the hero so said kids would rather play up top in the bpl rather than be a wide receiver in the nfl
Must be a slow td day if that comment seemed so far fetched
I am not of the above opinion. Yes, I would rather OBJ, local boy, rising to the top of us soccer. Local pride and all that. But i dont agree we are losing players (edit: we are. I mean i dont agree that is the problem). We just havent developed some as well as we couldve
This post was edited on 2/5/15 at 8:45 am
Posted on 2/5/15 at 9:05 am to StTiger
OBJ is a unique bc he was a soccer player and at his height he could play at almost any position on the field if he made it. When the story about him came out people blew it a bit much out of proportion. Most the time when kids are asked to be looked at for the national team set up its through a series of camps and such that thousands of kids go through. Its not like they were like hey your awesome now play for the U-14's
Usually to even get to that point you need to play travel/select and get invited to ODP try outs. Which sadly is still lots of politics unless you blow everyone away. Once in the system you then start to get really noticed if you are a stud. Thankfully that isn't the only route now and MLS teams have youth set ups.
We already have proved we have better athletes esp in our region even if the opposition is more technical.
Usually to even get to that point you need to play travel/select and get invited to ODP try outs. Which sadly is still lots of politics unless you blow everyone away. Once in the system you then start to get really noticed if you are a stud. Thankfully that isn't the only route now and MLS teams have youth set ups.
quote:
But i dont agree we are losing players (edit: we are. I mean i dont agree that is the problem). We just havent developed some as well as we couldve
We already have proved we have better athletes esp in our region even if the opposition is more technical.
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