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Message
re: Coaching basketball 8 year olds
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:10 pm to Mr. Wayne
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:10 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Other coaches yell at first official until he makes us run the play over and we don't get the shot off on time.
Was I wrong to tell the coaches their behavior was bad and that they should feel bad?
teachable moment, goes like this:
you tell the kids, the Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.
everything is ON LOAN from God. if you hold on to any 'whatever' you will surely suffer, because everything comes to an end some day. In this case, what appeared to be a victory was snatched by yelling coaches, and refs that caved.
Nothing regarding the other coaches is worth your time.
I would have stood my ground with the refs though. I would rather have taken my team off the floor than participate in a sham.
0
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:14 pm to AlaTiger
quote:Stan Van Gundy's thoughts on this topic:
That is actually bull crap and it is part of what is wrong with youth sports. Elementary aged sports is not some kind of farm system for your AAU leagues. Those kids are out there to play NOW and it should be fun NOW. Most of these kids will NEVER play high school basketball. Of course you teach fundamentals and the basics of the game. What do you think coaches are doing in practice? You start small and keep building and everyone gets better.
But, if winning together isn't a goal then you are completely missing the point of sports in general. It is not just about getting them ready for when you can coach them later in games that matter to you. It should matter to the kids early on.
Everyone is so afraid of the over-the-top competitive coach who takes it too far that we have lost the middle ground where you treat people decent, have fun, teach the game, and still work hard together to try and win as a team.
I tell my kids that my goal for them is that they learn to love the game and that they are all able to play pick up basketball recreationally when they get older. If any of them want to take it further, they'll have the foundation to do so. But, for now, we are a team and we will act like one and win or lose fighting for each other. The kids eat it up and love it.
Why do you want youth sports to be a farm system for some kind of goal that 90% of these kids will likely never attain?
"Skill development is going to start at a very young age. And quite frankly, if you look around, we're failing pretty badly in this country at teaching people basketball skills. There is a huge difference in the players in Europe and what we have here in terms of their ability to pass the ball and shoot the ball. We're not developing skills here.
One of the reasons is that we're much more interested in winning and losing games at a young young age than we are in skill development. So I would say this to all of the youth coaches - you have to make a decision if you want to teach the kids how to play basketball, or if you just want to win games. Because there is a big difference. I coach my 9 year old son's youth team, and I get to see every approach.
I would say out of the 18 teams I saw, there were maybe 2 or 3 coaches that were really trying to teach skills, and everybody else was just trying to win games. Leave your best players on the court as long as you can... play zone defense for God sakes... in a 9 year old league play zone defense for the entire game. Obviously, don't let your biggest kids dribble the ball... give the ball to a guard to take the ball up the court who is usually their son. And then you wonder why at the high school level we have so many kids who can't play, and we never have a 6'6", 6'7", 6'8" kid who can dribble, pass, or shoot because at a young age you tell him to stand under the basket and get the rebound and get it to somebody else.
So you have a decision to make. Do you want to build basketball players? Or do you just want to tell everybody you won your youth league?
This post was edited on 1/23/15 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:15 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
I respect your opinion being a coach on so many levels, but still think this is bull shite IMO. My kids went from dog piling to crying in a matter of 5 minutes. Every one of them had the sad kid look directed right at me asking me why they didn't win when they knew they scored more points. It was a bad choice of words to say the coaches cried until the ref cheated and gave them their way. We play Saturday and I will tell them I checked the rules and they officialy won the game based on the rules every one in the league is supposed to follow. Their biggest issue is confidence and they are still talking about getting drummed 18-4 in their last game. It never fails that one of them brings up the last win as a way of saying "we aren't that bad". I would have complemented the hell out of them had they missed the last shot. I wasn't ready to explain another team getting the ref to change the rules taking a win away from them.
I agree with you here 100%. These kids often really care. They get out there and they practice hard and they are in their driveway shooting and trying to get better. They put on the uniform and, for them, it is a huge deal. Then, they have parents and coaches completely conditioned to not be "that guy" who pat them on the head and say it doesn't matter what they do, but they cheer for them anyway. It is patronizing and the kids know it.
Better to care about what they do, cheer them on, and then support them for the effort they gave whether they win or lose than to say that winning doesn't matter. By downplaying winning, we are actually saying that it matters SO MUCH that we are afraid if the kids actually compete and lose then they will be destroyed. We have it backwards. Help them compete and if they lose, teach them how to deal with it and move on. That is much more healthy than having 8-10 years olds bust their tails for something that we say doesn't matter.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:17 pm to AlaTiger
Please tell me where I said that winning doesn't matter at all. What I'm saying is that at that age it should not be the primary objective for the coach. As a coach I'd get a lot more out of teaching a kid at that age a skill that he didn't have before he came to me than I would in winning a game.
Too many youth league coaches coach the team around one or two players. It's a team sport. Yes, some of the kids suck at that age but lighting a spark in a kid is more important than any win or loss they won't remember when the next season rolls along. If I can pass along my love of the game and teach at the same time I've done my job.
Too many youth league coaches coach the team around one or two players. It's a team sport. Yes, some of the kids suck at that age but lighting a spark in a kid is more important than any win or loss they won't remember when the next season rolls along. If I can pass along my love of the game and teach at the same time I've done my job.
This post was edited on 1/23/15 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:25 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
would say out of the 18 teams I saw, there were maybe 2 or 3 coaches that were really trying to teach skills, and everybody else was just trying to win games. Leave your best players on the court as long as you can... play zone defense for God sakes in a 9 year old league play zone defense for the entire game. Obviously, don't let your biggest kids dribble the ball... give the ball to a guard to take the ball up the court who is usually their son. And then you wonder why at the high school level we have so many kids who can't play, and we never have a 6'6", 6'7", 6'8" kid who can dribble, pass, or shoot because at a young age you tell him to stand under the basket and get the rebound and get it to someone else.
Van Gundy is looking at long-term development on a national scale. That is fine. European basketball is advancing because of how they do high school and semi pro ball - which is totally different from us.
You can teach skills and fundamentals and still try to win at the same time. It is not an either/or concept.
I coach upper elementary basketball. Some kids just cannot shot at all. It isn't because they don't practice - it is because they are not ready. So, I find the kids who can shoot and say that these are our shooters so get the ball to them. Everyone shoots in practice and when you are ready to shoot in a game, you will do so. By the end of the season, everyone is shooting in games. It is development.
But, EVERYONE learns to play defense. We go man-to-man the whole game and we learn to switch and help one another. Other teams play zone and whatnot, but we play man. I just introduced zone and press defenses, mainly so the kids would be familiar with them. And, they learn the fundamentals of passing, dribbling, setting picks, etc. We teach rebounding positioning, blocking out, and low post play as well.
For offense, the kids are in motion and move to open spots on the floor. Learing plays at that age is counter productive. I want them learning concepts so they can use them later.
And, my bigger kids handle the ball all of the time.
None of that is at odds with ALSO trying to win games together. It is a false dichotomy and one that actually diminishes the sport in the long run.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:26 pm to PrimeTime Money
Their is a kid in our 8 yr old league that flops like a SOB every time he gets touches. His shitty coach and his shittier father in the stands start yelling at the ref immediately every time. Meanwhile, the kid takes himself out of every play and negates any potential of getting rebounds or getting back to play transition defense. Drives me insane that this kid isn't being shown the obvious.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:28 pm to BigEdLSU
If I pay gas will you come to Lafayette Saturday? 
The youngest who wouldn't play for fear of losing a marble is my best ball handler for the game. My best player for Saturday dribbles like this
But was 3 of 5 shooting 3's in warmups.
The youngest who wouldn't play for fear of losing a marble is my best ball handler for the game. My best player for Saturday dribbles like this
But was 3 of 5 shooting 3's in warmups.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:30 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Please tell me where I said that winning doesn't matter at all. What I'm saying is that at that age it should not be the primary objective for the coach. As a coach I'd get a lot more out of teaching a kid at that age a skill that he didn't have before he came to me than I would in winning a game.
Too many youth league coaches coach the team around one or two players. It's a team sport. Yes, some of the kids suck at that age but lighting a spark in a kid is more important than any win or loss they won't remember when the next season rolls along. If I can pass along my love of the game and teach at the same time I've done my job.
Okay. I agree with that. All that I want is balance. I try to do the same thing and work with every kid so that he falls in love with the game and gets better. I have heard so much talk about how "winning doesn't matter" that I just want to put in a plug for how actually trying to win with a team can help kids love the game and get better.
I agree that you have to coach the whole team. My best player who is pretty dominant has only taken 10 shots in the past 2 games. He has a bunch of assists, though. We won both games because everyone is getting involved and are working together. But, he needs to shoot more and I have no problem with a basketball team having 3 primary scorers.
We put too much emphasis on everyone being able to score. Scoring is just one part of the game. Having kids who major on defense or rebounding is really important too, and it builds confidence for the scoring that will come later if they keep up with it. If a kid can believe that he is good at just ONE thing and that is his contribution to the team, then he will keep working and will build on the other skills as time goes on.
But, I see your point and it is a good one. I agree.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:30 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
My best player for Saturday dribbles like this But was 3 of 5 shooting 3's in warmups.
Buy that kid some cones. Tell him to just throw them all over his driveway and simply dribble around them until he gets dizzy.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:31 pm to Mr. Wayne
Ahh laffy. lil too far 
This post was edited on 1/23/15 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:33 pm to Black n Gold
I like that idea. Unfortunately my driveway is made of dirt, however I'll be the guy with cones at local parks near you
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:38 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
You can teach skills and fundamentals and still try to win at the same time. It is not an either/or concept.
I run our offense through our best player on the court. Typically, the defenders crash on him as soon as he gets in the lane and I tell him to look for somebody open. Last night, nobody crashed so I told him to shoot it if he was open.
quote:
Everyone shoots in practice and when you are ready to shoot in a game, you will do so. By the end of the season, everyone is shooting in games. It is development.
This. I assing my kids to a position where they can showcase their strength's. We give them each the same amount of shots and I spend my time with the one's who can't shoot trying to coach them up.
quote:
We go man-to-man the whole game
Have to in our league. Will stop the play if you are running a zone or double team for more than a few seconds.
quote:
Learing plays at that age is counter productive
I tried plays, they failed miserably. Now I give them positions on the court and try to teach them how to create space to either get open or keep a defender from being able to provide help D.
quote:
And, my bigger kids handle the ball all of the time.
My biggest kid is consistently shorter than 2 players on the other team. He is also my backup point guard.
This post was edited on 1/23/15 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:41 pm to Mr. Wayne
Can you fast break in your league?
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:42 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Too many youth league coaches coach the team around one or two players. It's a team sport.
My point guard dribbles the ball up and calls any player he wants name. They set a pick and he drives. I have all of the other kids spaced out and my point looks for the first defender to come off of his man. (Happens every time) If it's a clean pass, it's a layup to 5ft attempt. If it's a bad pass, typically is, the defense catches up and we have to pass it back out. I don't have a single play for any of my players. If someone has a defender who keeps leaving them, or can't keep up, I tell my PG to look for him.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:45 pm to Black n Gold
quote:
Can you fast break in your league?
Nope. Every player from both teams have to be on the side of the court and one pass has to be made.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:47 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Too many youth league coaches coach the team around one or two players. It's a team sport.
I see plenty of games where kids barely get the ball past half court before dribbling off their foot or getting their pockets picked. The kids won't learn shite if they are never able to set up anything that resembles an offense. Almost always put your best kid at point.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:48 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Now I give them positions on the court and try to teach them how to create space...
Yep. That is exactly what I do. I also teach each position where to move and how to help the other. So, they are all a 1,2,3,4, or 5. They know where to go to set up, where to flash, and who to pass it to. They also know where to move to help when the ball goes to another player. It is as simple as possible and is based on how guys play intutive pick-up basketball.
It works pretty well. Sometimes they stand around too much, but I keep trying to get them to move to their open space on the floor. We do not set picks well at all, though, and are working on that.
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:49 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Nope. Every player from both teams have to be on the side of the court and one pass has to be made.
Wow. That sounds like a pretty elementary league for 8 yr olds. Is that rec league generating any ballplayers?
Posted on 1/23/15 at 12:58 pm to Black n Gold
quote:
Wow. That sounds like a pretty elementary league for 8 yr olds. Is that rec league generating any ballplayers?
Which is why we are moving my nephew to another league next year. It's a 7-8 year old league so I guess it caters more to the 7 year olds. I'm not sure if the public high school has come close to a state championship in the past 20 years in the big 3 sports.
Posted on 1/24/15 at 10:20 am to Mr. Wayne
I feel like this is a good place for me to brag on myself as a coach. My well oiled machine of elite first graders pummeled our hapless opponent to the tune of 32-10. Sloth got a shot off, ADD was a blistering ball of fury, my crier actually played a quarter and a half before becoming an emotional basket case, and defense only once again held his man scoreless on both ends of the court. We're perched high atop the league with an impeccable 3-0 record and Im seriously considering a legal name change to Wooden. That is all.
This post was edited on 1/24/15 at 10:22 am
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