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SCOTUS says its ok for cops to be ignorant of the law in their duties

Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:07 pm
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20898 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:07 pm
WashPo

Slate

NBC News

quote:

The Supreme Court ruled Monday that a police officer's mistaken idea of the law doesn't make an arrest and a search invalid, as long as the officer's understanding of the law was reasonable. The case evolved from a traffic stop in 2009, in which Nicholas Heien was pulled over on Interstate 77 in North Carolina by a county sheriff's deputy because one of his brake lights was out. After getting permission to search the car, the deputy found a baggie of cocaine, and Heien was charged with drug trafficking.

But it turned out North Carolina law did not require cars to have two brake lights. The state law said they must have "a" stop lamp on the rear and elsewhere referred to "the" stop lamp, meaning the deputy was apparently wrong about the law. Heien's lawyer — backed by civil liberties groups — said if a law wasn't being broken, there was no authority to arrest him or conduct a search. But by a 8-1 vote, the Supreme Court said the arrest and the search were valid, even if the officer was wrong about the law. The Fourth Amendment bars "unreasonable" searches and seizures, the court said. "To be reasonable is not to be perfect, and so the Fourth Amendment allows for some mistakes on the part of government officials," said the opinion, written by Chief Justice John Roberts.


Amazing how the law doesn't apply to the police, but the people are still held to that standard. Another bad ruling from SCOTUS.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 1:20 pm
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
34885 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:09 pm to
They only continued a ruling that has been around for many years. This isn't a new ruling. ETA: Better way to say that is this isn't a new decision that they just decided on.

This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 1:12 pm
Posted by Clyde Tipton
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2007
38741 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:10 pm to
Fruit of a poisonous tree.

quote:

Another bad ruling from SCOTUS
Posted by CadesCove
Mounting the Woman
Member since Oct 2006
40828 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

SCOTUS says its ok for cops can to be ignorant of the law in their duties


When are you applying to the academy?
Posted by Brosef Stalin
Member since Dec 2011
39211 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:11 pm to
What happened to ignorance of the law is no excuse?
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
19694 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

To be reasonable is not to be perfect, and so the Fourth Amendment allows for some mistakes on the part of government officials,"


but not citizens?
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18646 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:12 pm to
I'm confused. Why did he give them permission to search the car?

It seems like one doesn't have anything to do with the other...
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20898 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

When are you applying to the academy?


After I get off my phone.
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52148 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

SCOTUS says its ok for cops to be ignorant of the law in their duties

Well they're ignorant of everything else. Why exclude the law?
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
19694 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

I'm confused. Why did he give them permission to search the car?


B/c he's dumb

quote:

It seems like one doesn't have anything to do with the other...


Well...if he wasn't breaking any laws, then he legally can't pull him over.

ETA: Well I guess the SCOTUS think he can so whatever.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 1:15 pm
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20898 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

What happened to ignorance of the law is no excuse?


That only applies to people not in government.
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18646 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

Well...if he wasn't breaking any laws, then he legally can't pull him over.



Yeah, but a cop wouldn't have any reason to search a car for a broken tail light anyway.

So I'm wondering why the cop wanted to search in the first place. But regardless, I don't understand why this guy thinks he should get off on this after giving the cop permission to search his car...
Posted by ZereauxSum
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:21 pm to
Doesn't the fact that the guy consented to the search make the cops ignorance a moot point?
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20898 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

But regardless, I don't understand why this guy thinks he should get off on this after giving the cop permission to search his car...


I just think this creates a scary precedent where police no longer have to worry about being right or wrong about the law, so long as a court thinks their understanding is reasonable.
Posted by LSUwag
Florida man
Member since Jan 2007
17319 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

After getting permission to search the car, the deputy found a baggie of cocaine, and Heien was charged with drug trafficking.


The driver gave permission to search.

It sounds to me that the "ignorant" police officer outsmarted the defendant.
Posted by LSU03
Tiger Mecca (aka Baton Rouge)
Member since Dec 2003
514 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:26 pm to
And here I thought "ignorance of the law is no excuse?" I guess that only applies to citizens...
Posted by swamplynx
Lake Chuck
Member since Oct 2014
1239 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:26 pm to
Yea, but what people are pissed about is that he was pulled over when he shouldn't have been. This ruling is nothing new like another poster said.

The hipocracy that the government can claim ignorance but the public can't is what is frustrating.

The consent to search was valid and did not violate the Fourth amendment. It was his dumbass fault for consenting.
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
19694 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

I'm wondering why the cop wanted to search in the first place


Just about every police academy teaches you to ask for consent to search, and I'd it's on an interstate or an area with drug trafficking you can bet that in 90% of the stops the cops asks to search.

quote:

I don't understand why this guy thinks he should get off on this after giving the cop permission to search his car...


I see the point you're making, but for me it reverts to the guy not being in that situation to allow the search to begin with.

Posted by JEAUXBLEAUX
Bayonne, NJ
Member since May 2006
55358 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:29 pm to
SCOTUS and WaPo You win the lack of verbal skills award
Posted by ZereauxSum
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

Yea, but what people are pissed about is that he was pulled over when he shouldn't have been. This ruling is nothing new like another poster said.


I get that, but cops make BS stops all the time when the actually know the law. This is one of the few times where the cop wasn't intentionally trying to screw someone.

quote:

The hipocracy that the government can claim ignorance but the public can't is what is frustrating.


I don't think they are saying his ignorance excuses anything, I think they are saying that his ignorance doesnt invalidate the search and arrest, which is true because the idiot driver gave consent to search.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 1:36 pm
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