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Started By
Message
The American Health Care Reform Act (The GOP Alternative to Obamacare)
Posted on 11/13/14 at 8:58 am
Posted on 11/13/14 at 8:58 am
I posted this over a year ago, in response to the claims there was no Republican alternative to Obamacare. Figured it was fitting to post again. The admins won't unlock the old thread so i'll have to copy and paste.
LINK
Let's examine what's actually in this bill. I may not be able to cover all parts today, so i will keep this a continuing thread and will update. Also, I am not 100% versed in bill language, so if i misinterpret, please correct me. (honest corrections, not liberal flames)
Bill Text
Bill Text
Title 1 is the repeal of Obamacare. That is of course, a great thing, and will be replaced by this bill. I'd rather examine the parts of the new health care insurance bill.
quote:
TITLE II—INCREASING ACCESS
2 TO PORTABLE, AFFORDABLE
3 HEALTH INSURANCE
quote:
Subtitle A—Standard Deduction
12 for Health Insurance
quote:
DEDUCTION ALLOWED.—In the case of an indi-
22 vidual, there shall be allowed as a deduction to the tax-
23 payer for the taxable year the standard deduction for
24 health insurance.
Allowing deductions of health care insurance cost in your taxes. Kind of a common sense thing that should be in the bill.
quote:
SEC. 202. CHANGES TO EXISTING TAX PREFERENCES FOR
2 MEDICAL COVERAGE AND COSTS FOR INDI-
3 VIDUALS ELIGIBLE FOR STANDARD DEDUC-
4 TION FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.
More employer tax deductions for having health care. I believe. This section is heavy on legal speak. Lawyers feel free to translate.
quote:
Subtitle B—Enhancement of Health
7 Savings Accounts
8 SEC. 221. ALLOW BOTH SPOUSES TO MAKE CATCH-UP CON-
9 TRIBUTIONS TO THE SAME HSA ACCOUNT.
Allowing catch up contributions to health savings accounts if over the age of 55.
quote:
MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES PARTICIPATING IN
15 MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MSA MAY CONTRIBUTE THEIR
16 OWN MONEY TO THEIR MSA
quote:
SEC. 223. INDIVIDUALS ELIGIBLE FOR VETERANS BENE-
5 FITS FOR A SERVICE-CONNECTED DIS-
6 ABILITY.
quote:
an indi-
13 vidual shall not be treated as covered under a
14 health plan described in such subparagraph
15 merely because the individual receives periodic
16 hospital care or medical services for a service-
17 connected disability under any law administered
18 by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs but only if
19 the individual is not eligible to receive such care
20 or services for any condition other than a serv-
21 ice-connected disability.’’
Basically says that a service disabled vet cannot receive benefits from this act, if they are already receiving service vet benefits from the vet hospital. If hospital does not cover, then the bill will cover.
Basically the rest of these few sections cover eliminating redundant coverage.
quote:
SEC. 227. PURCHASE OF HEALTH INSURANCE FROM HSA
14 ACCOUNT
Allowing HSA accounts
quote:
SEC. 229. PREVENTIVE CARE PRESCRIPTION DRUG CLARI-
13 FICATION
quote:
‘‘Preventive care
17 shall include prescription and over-the-counter drugs and
18 medicines which have the primary purpose of preventing
19 the onset of, further deterioration from, or complications
20 associated with chronic conditions, illnesses, or diseases.
quote:
SEC. 232. REAUTHORIZATION OF MEDICAID HEALTH OP-
18 PORTUNITY ACCOUNTS
This basically puts control of medicaid accounts back in the hands of the state, and allows for a more centralized determination of care.
quote:
SEC. 235. TREATMENT OF DIRECT PRIMARY CARE SERVICE
4 ARRANGEMENTS.
quote:
An arrangement under
9 which an individual is provided coverage restricted to
10 primary care services in exchange for a fixed peri-
11 odic fee—
12 ‘‘(A) shall not be treated as a health plan
13 for purposes of paragraph (1)(A)(ii), and
14 ‘‘(B) shall not be treated as insurance for
15 purposes of subsection (d)(2)(B).’’.
LINK
Let's examine what's actually in this bill. I may not be able to cover all parts today, so i will keep this a continuing thread and will update. Also, I am not 100% versed in bill language, so if i misinterpret, please correct me. (honest corrections, not liberal flames)
Bill Text
Bill Text
Title 1 is the repeal of Obamacare. That is of course, a great thing, and will be replaced by this bill. I'd rather examine the parts of the new health care insurance bill.
quote:
TITLE II—INCREASING ACCESS
2 TO PORTABLE, AFFORDABLE
3 HEALTH INSURANCE
quote:
Subtitle A—Standard Deduction
12 for Health Insurance
quote:
DEDUCTION ALLOWED.—In the case of an indi-
22 vidual, there shall be allowed as a deduction to the tax-
23 payer for the taxable year the standard deduction for
24 health insurance.
Allowing deductions of health care insurance cost in your taxes. Kind of a common sense thing that should be in the bill.
quote:
SEC. 202. CHANGES TO EXISTING TAX PREFERENCES FOR
2 MEDICAL COVERAGE AND COSTS FOR INDI-
3 VIDUALS ELIGIBLE FOR STANDARD DEDUC-
4 TION FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.
More employer tax deductions for having health care. I believe. This section is heavy on legal speak. Lawyers feel free to translate.
quote:
Subtitle B—Enhancement of Health
7 Savings Accounts
8 SEC. 221. ALLOW BOTH SPOUSES TO MAKE CATCH-UP CON-
9 TRIBUTIONS TO THE SAME HSA ACCOUNT.
Allowing catch up contributions to health savings accounts if over the age of 55.
quote:
MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES PARTICIPATING IN
15 MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MSA MAY CONTRIBUTE THEIR
16 OWN MONEY TO THEIR MSA
quote:
SEC. 223. INDIVIDUALS ELIGIBLE FOR VETERANS BENE-
5 FITS FOR A SERVICE-CONNECTED DIS-
6 ABILITY.
quote:
an indi-
13 vidual shall not be treated as covered under a
14 health plan described in such subparagraph
15 merely because the individual receives periodic
16 hospital care or medical services for a service-
17 connected disability under any law administered
18 by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs but only if
19 the individual is not eligible to receive such care
20 or services for any condition other than a serv-
21 ice-connected disability.’’
Basically says that a service disabled vet cannot receive benefits from this act, if they are already receiving service vet benefits from the vet hospital. If hospital does not cover, then the bill will cover.
Basically the rest of these few sections cover eliminating redundant coverage.
quote:
SEC. 227. PURCHASE OF HEALTH INSURANCE FROM HSA
14 ACCOUNT
Allowing HSA accounts
quote:
SEC. 229. PREVENTIVE CARE PRESCRIPTION DRUG CLARI-
13 FICATION
quote:
‘‘Preventive care
17 shall include prescription and over-the-counter drugs and
18 medicines which have the primary purpose of preventing
19 the onset of, further deterioration from, or complications
20 associated with chronic conditions, illnesses, or diseases.
quote:
SEC. 232. REAUTHORIZATION OF MEDICAID HEALTH OP-
18 PORTUNITY ACCOUNTS
This basically puts control of medicaid accounts back in the hands of the state, and allows for a more centralized determination of care.
quote:
SEC. 235. TREATMENT OF DIRECT PRIMARY CARE SERVICE
4 ARRANGEMENTS.
quote:
An arrangement under
9 which an individual is provided coverage restricted to
10 primary care services in exchange for a fixed peri-
11 odic fee—
12 ‘‘(A) shall not be treated as a health plan
13 for purposes of paragraph (1)(A)(ii), and
14 ‘‘(B) shall not be treated as insurance for
15 purposes of subsection (d)(2)(B).’’.
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 9:12 am
1
Posted on 11/13/14 at 8:59 am to BugAC
Continuing on
quote:
SEC. 236. CERTAIN EXERCISE EQUIPMENT AND PHYSICAL
20 FITNESS PROGRAMS TREATED AS MEDICAL
21 CARE
quote:
to participate, or receive instruc-
9 tion, in a program of physical exercise, and
10 ‘‘(iii) for membership dues in a fitness
11 club the primary purpose of which is to
12 provide access to equipment and facilities
13 for physical exercise.
14 ‘‘(B) LIMITATION.—Amounts treated as
15 medical care under subparagraph (A) shall not
16 exceed $1,000 with respect to any individual for
17 any taxable year.’’.
quote:
SEC. 240. CHILD HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT.
quote:
—The amount taken into ac-
14 count under paragraph (1) with respect to each child
15 of the taxpayer for the taxable year shall not exceed
16 an amount equal to $3,000.
A child health savings account. I like it.
quote:
DISTRIBUTIONS FOR ABORTION EXPENSES FROM
15 HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS INCLUDED IN
16 GROSS INCOME.
ATTENTION LIBERALS: THIS YOU SHOULD BE FOR
quote:
any amount used to pay for an abor-
24 tion (other than an abortion described in paragraph B[quote]
[quote]an abortion—
6 ‘‘(I) in the case of a pregnancy
7 that is the result of an act of rape or
8 incest, or
9 ‘‘(II) in the case where a woman
10 suffers from a physical disorder, phys-
11 ical injury, or physical illness that
12 would, as certified by a physician,
13 place the woman in danger of death
14 unless an abortion is performed, in-
15 cluding a life-endangering physical
16 condition caused by or arising from
17 the pregnancy, and
18 ‘‘(ii) the treatment of any infection,
19 injury, disease, or disorder that has been
20 caused by or exacerbated by the perform-
21 ance of an abortion.’’.
quote:
SEC. 251. PROVIDING FINANCIAL INCENTIVES FOR TREAT-
4 MENT COMPLIANCE.
quote:
‘‘In applying subparagraph (B), a group health plan
13 (or a health insurance issuer with respect to health
14 insurance coverage) may vary premiums and cost-
15 sharing by up to 50 percent of the value of the bene-
16 fits under the plan (or coverage) based on participa-
17 tion (or lack of participation) in a standards-based
18 wellness program.’’.
Wow, so if you live a healthy lifestyle, you pay less. I think common sense snuck into this bill.
THE HORROR!
quote:
SEC. 236. CERTAIN EXERCISE EQUIPMENT AND PHYSICAL
20 FITNESS PROGRAMS TREATED AS MEDICAL
21 CARE
quote:
to participate, or receive instruc-
9 tion, in a program of physical exercise, and
10 ‘‘(iii) for membership dues in a fitness
11 club the primary purpose of which is to
12 provide access to equipment and facilities
13 for physical exercise.
14 ‘‘(B) LIMITATION.—Amounts treated as
15 medical care under subparagraph (A) shall not
16 exceed $1,000 with respect to any individual for
17 any taxable year.’’.
quote:
SEC. 240. CHILD HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT.
quote:
—The amount taken into ac-
14 count under paragraph (1) with respect to each child
15 of the taxpayer for the taxable year shall not exceed
16 an amount equal to $3,000.
A child health savings account. I like it.
quote:
DISTRIBUTIONS FOR ABORTION EXPENSES FROM
15 HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS INCLUDED IN
16 GROSS INCOME.
ATTENTION LIBERALS: THIS YOU SHOULD BE FOR
quote:
any amount used to pay for an abor-
24 tion (other than an abortion described in paragraph B[quote]
[quote]an abortion—
6 ‘‘(I) in the case of a pregnancy
7 that is the result of an act of rape or
8 incest, or
9 ‘‘(II) in the case where a woman
10 suffers from a physical disorder, phys-
11 ical injury, or physical illness that
12 would, as certified by a physician,
13 place the woman in danger of death
14 unless an abortion is performed, in-
15 cluding a life-endangering physical
16 condition caused by or arising from
17 the pregnancy, and
18 ‘‘(ii) the treatment of any infection,
19 injury, disease, or disorder that has been
20 caused by or exacerbated by the perform-
21 ance of an abortion.’’.
quote:
SEC. 251. PROVIDING FINANCIAL INCENTIVES FOR TREAT-
4 MENT COMPLIANCE.
quote:
‘‘In applying subparagraph (B), a group health plan
13 (or a health insurance issuer with respect to health
14 insurance coverage) may vary premiums and cost-
15 sharing by up to 50 percent of the value of the bene-
16 fits under the plan (or coverage) based on participa-
17 tion (or lack of participation) in a standards-based
18 wellness program.’’.
Wow, so if you live a healthy lifestyle, you pay less. I think common sense snuck into this bill.
THE HORROR!
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 9:02 am
Posted on 11/13/14 at 9:00 am to BugAC
Here we go, improving options across state lines. This is where companies compete nationally resulting in cheaper, higher quality health insurance.
quote:
TITLE III—IMPROVING ACCESS
2 TO INSURANCE FOR VULNER-
3 ABLE AMERICANS
4 Subtitle A—Eliminating Barriers to
5 Insurance Coverage
PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS SECTION
quote:
Subtitle B—Ensuring Coverage for
5 Individuals With Preexisting
6 Conditions and Multiple Health
7 Care Needs Through High Risk
8 Pools
quote:
‘‘The Secretary shall provide from the
14 funds appropriated under subsection (d)(3)(A) a
15 grant of up to $5,000,000 to each State that has
16 not created a qualified high risk pool as of Sep-
17 tember 1, 2013, for the State’s costs of creation and
18 initial operation of such a pool.’’;
quote:
VERIFICATION OF CITIZENSHIP OR ALIEN
4 QUALIFICATION.—
5 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any
6 other provision of law, effective upon the date
7 of the enactment of this paragraph, only citi-
8 zens and nationals of the United States shall be
9 eligible to participate in a qualified high risk
10 pool that receives funds under this section.
quote:
AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS FOR
21 FISCAL YEARS 2015 THROUGH 2023.—There are au-
22 thorized to be appropriated $2,500,000,000 for each
23 of fiscal years 2015 through 2023 which, subject to
24 paragraph (6), shall be made available for allotments
25 under subsection (b)(2).
Basically this is a monetary sum distributed for those that do not have, and need existing conditions coverage.
quote:
TITLE III—IMPROVING ACCESS
2 TO INSURANCE FOR VULNER-
3 ABLE AMERICANS
4 Subtitle A—Eliminating Barriers to
5 Insurance Coverage
PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS SECTION
quote:
Subtitle B—Ensuring Coverage for
5 Individuals With Preexisting
6 Conditions and Multiple Health
7 Care Needs Through High Risk
8 Pools
quote:
‘‘The Secretary shall provide from the
14 funds appropriated under subsection (d)(3)(A) a
15 grant of up to $5,000,000 to each State that has
16 not created a qualified high risk pool as of Sep-
17 tember 1, 2013, for the State’s costs of creation and
18 initial operation of such a pool.’’;
quote:
VERIFICATION OF CITIZENSHIP OR ALIEN
4 QUALIFICATION.—
5 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any
6 other provision of law, effective upon the date
7 of the enactment of this paragraph, only citi-
8 zens and nationals of the United States shall be
9 eligible to participate in a qualified high risk
10 pool that receives funds under this section.
quote:
AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS FOR
21 FISCAL YEARS 2015 THROUGH 2023.—There are au-
22 thorized to be appropriated $2,500,000,000 for each
23 of fiscal years 2015 through 2023 which, subject to
24 paragraph (6), shall be made available for allotments
25 under subsection (b)(2).
Basically this is a monetary sum distributed for those that do not have, and need existing conditions coverage.
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 9:03 am
Posted on 11/13/14 at 9:00 am to BugAC
quote:
TITLE IV—ENCOURAGING A
2 MORE COMPETITIVE HEALTH
3 CARE MARKET
4 Subtitle A—Expanding Patient
5 Choice
Basically states that buying insurance across state lines is now acceptable. The insurance plan you get must follow the state's insurance regulations. This will vastly improve health insurance coverage, IMO. and will not bankrupt our economy.
quote:
‘A health insurance issuer may not offer, sell, or
12 issue individual health insurance coverage in a secondary
13 State if the State insurance commissioner does not use
14 a risk-based capital formula for the determination of cap-
15 ital and surplus requirements for all health insurance
16 issuers.
quote:
RESTORING THE APPLICATION OF ANTITRUST
20 LAWS TO HEALTH SECTOR INSURERS
quote:
Medicare Price
9 Transparency
10 SEC. 421. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY OF MEDICARE CLAIMS
11 DATA.
quote:
Subtitle D—State Transparency
4 Portals
5 SEC. 431. PROVIDING INFORMATION ON HEALTH COV-
6 ERAGE OPTIONS AND HEALTH CARE PRO-
7 VIDERS.
quote:
STATE-BASED PORTAL.—A State (by itself or
9 jointly with other States) may contract with a private enti-
10 ty to establish a Health Plan and Provider Portal Web
11 site (referred to in this section as a ‘‘plan portal’’) for
12 the purposes of providing standardized information—
13 (1) on health insurance plans that have been
14 certified to be available for purchase in that State;
15 and
16 (2) on price and quality information on health
17 care providers (including physicians, hospitals, and
18 other health care institutions
quote:
Subtitle E—Protecting the Doctor-
13 Patient Relationship
14 SEC. 441. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
15 Nothing in this Act shall be construed to interfere
16 with the doctor-patient relationship or the practice of med-
17 icine.
quote:
REPEAL OF FEDERAL COORDINATING COUNCIL
19 FOR COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RE-
20 SEARCH.
quote:
TITLE V—REFORMING MEDICAL
18 LIABILITY LAW
quote:
TITLE VI—RESPECTING HUMAN
2 LIFE
3 SEC. 601. SPECIAL RULES REGARDING ABORTION.
quote:
—Noth-
5 ing in this Act (or any amendment made by this Act) shall
6 be construed to require any health plan (including any
7 high risk pool described in section 311) to provide cov-
8 erage of or access to abortion services or to allow the Sec-
9 retary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Labor, the Sec-
10 retary of Health and Human Services, or any other Fed-
11 eral or non-Federal person or entity in implementing this
12 Act (or amendment) to require coverage of, or access to,
13 abortion services.except—
21 (A) if the pregnancy is the result of an act
22 of rape or incest; or
23 (B) in the case where a pregnant female
24 suffers from a physical disorder, physical in-
25 jury, or physical illness that would, as certified
1 by a physician, place the female in danger of
2 death unless an abortion is performed, includ-
3 ing a life-endangering physical condition caused
4 by or arising from the pregnancy itself.
Abortions will not be covered under this bill, except in life-threatening, rape or other circumstances.
quote:
OPTION TO PURCHASE SEPARATE COV-
6 ERAGE OR PLAN.—Nothing in this subsection shall
7 be construed as prohibiting any non-Federal entity
8 (including an individual or a State or local govern-
9 ment) from purchasing separate coverage for abor-
10 tions for which funding is prohibited under this sub-
11 section, or a health plan that includes such abor-
12 tions, so long as such coverage or plan is paid for
13 entirely using only funds not authorized or appro-
14 priated by this Act
Basically, if you want an abortion, you must pay for it out of pocket, or have it covered by an insurance company that will pay for it. But no such funds will be contributed towards an abortion from this bill.
TITLE IV—ENCOURAGING A
2 MORE COMPETITIVE HEALTH
3 CARE MARKET
4 Subtitle A—Expanding Patient
5 Choice
Basically states that buying insurance across state lines is now acceptable. The insurance plan you get must follow the state's insurance regulations. This will vastly improve health insurance coverage, IMO. and will not bankrupt our economy.
quote:
‘A health insurance issuer may not offer, sell, or
12 issue individual health insurance coverage in a secondary
13 State if the State insurance commissioner does not use
14 a risk-based capital formula for the determination of cap-
15 ital and surplus requirements for all health insurance
16 issuers.
quote:
RESTORING THE APPLICATION OF ANTITRUST
20 LAWS TO HEALTH SECTOR INSURERS
quote:
Medicare Price
9 Transparency
10 SEC. 421. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY OF MEDICARE CLAIMS
11 DATA.
quote:
Subtitle D—State Transparency
4 Portals
5 SEC. 431. PROVIDING INFORMATION ON HEALTH COV-
6 ERAGE OPTIONS AND HEALTH CARE PRO-
7 VIDERS.
quote:
STATE-BASED PORTAL.—A State (by itself or
9 jointly with other States) may contract with a private enti-
10 ty to establish a Health Plan and Provider Portal Web
11 site (referred to in this section as a ‘‘plan portal’’) for
12 the purposes of providing standardized information—
13 (1) on health insurance plans that have been
14 certified to be available for purchase in that State;
15 and
16 (2) on price and quality information on health
17 care providers (including physicians, hospitals, and
18 other health care institutions
quote:
Subtitle E—Protecting the Doctor-
13 Patient Relationship
14 SEC. 441. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
15 Nothing in this Act shall be construed to interfere
16 with the doctor-patient relationship or the practice of med-
17 icine.
quote:
REPEAL OF FEDERAL COORDINATING COUNCIL
19 FOR COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RE-
20 SEARCH.
quote:
TITLE V—REFORMING MEDICAL
18 LIABILITY LAW
quote:
TITLE VI—RESPECTING HUMAN
2 LIFE
3 SEC. 601. SPECIAL RULES REGARDING ABORTION.
quote:
—Noth-
5 ing in this Act (or any amendment made by this Act) shall
6 be construed to require any health plan (including any
7 high risk pool described in section 311) to provide cov-
8 erage of or access to abortion services or to allow the Sec-
9 retary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Labor, the Sec-
10 retary of Health and Human Services, or any other Fed-
11 eral or non-Federal person or entity in implementing this
12 Act (or amendment) to require coverage of, or access to,
13 abortion services.except—
21 (A) if the pregnancy is the result of an act
22 of rape or incest; or
23 (B) in the case where a pregnant female
24 suffers from a physical disorder, physical in-
25 jury, or physical illness that would, as certified
1 by a physician, place the female in danger of
2 death unless an abortion is performed, includ-
3 ing a life-endangering physical condition caused
4 by or arising from the pregnancy itself.
Abortions will not be covered under this bill, except in life-threatening, rape or other circumstances.
quote:
OPTION TO PURCHASE SEPARATE COV-
6 ERAGE OR PLAN.—Nothing in this subsection shall
7 be construed as prohibiting any non-Federal entity
8 (including an individual or a State or local govern-
9 ment) from purchasing separate coverage for abor-
10 tions for which funding is prohibited under this sub-
11 section, or a health plan that includes such abor-
12 tions, so long as such coverage or plan is paid for
13 entirely using only funds not authorized or appro-
14 priated by this Act
Basically, if you want an abortion, you must pay for it out of pocket, or have it covered by an insurance company that will pay for it. But no such funds will be contributed towards an abortion from this bill.
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 9:03 am
Posted on 11/13/14 at 9:10 am to BugAC
Cant wait for the left/MSM to smear it as being mean to the poor/minorities/women/old people.
Posted on 11/13/14 at 9:43 am to BugAC
I like it. I think the House and Senate need to pass it and make Obama either sign it or veto it. Then make Hiliary (or whomever the dem nominee is )defend the veto.
Posted on 11/13/14 at 10:20 am to Cosmo
quote:
Cant wait for the left/MSM to smear it as being mean to the poor/minorities/women/old people.
They won't because they can't object to it. They know for a FACT that this bill is better and solves most of the problems of the healthcare system. But, it was introduced by a Republican and their Democrat slave masters will not let them speak out against Obamacare.
Posted on 11/13/14 at 10:28 am to BugAC
quote:
Abortions will not be covered under this bill, except in life-threatening, rape or other circumstances.
Slippery slope with the rape clause.
Posted on 11/14/14 at 12:15 pm to idlewatcher
bump
Posted on 11/14/14 at 12:22 pm to BugAC
quote:Many companies have gone this direction. They have mandatory wellness checks and obesity, smoking, etc., results in increased costs for that employee.
Wow, so if you live a healthy lifestyle, you pay less. I think common sense snuck into this bill. THE HORROR!
It is how it should be done.
quote:Definitely agree. The rape clause is not a good idea.
Slippery slope with the rape clause.
This post was edited on 11/14/14 at 12:24 pm
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