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DOE tells Princeton "Clear and Convincing" Is Too High of a Burden
Posted on 11/7/14 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 11/7/14 at 8:55 pm
LINK
Obama administration you scary
quote:
Princeton had been one of the last hold-outs on the standard of proof in college rape trials. The university required adjudicators to obtain "clear and convincing" proof that a student was guilty of sexual assault before convicting him. That's too tough, said DOE. As part of its settlement, Princeton is required to lower its evidence standard to "a preponderance of the evidence," which means adjudicators must convict if they are 50.1 percent persuaded by the accuser.
quote:
On the other side, Laura Dunn, executive director of victims' advocacy center SurvJustice, hilariously told InsideHigherEd that "ingrained male privilege" was the only reason for using a lower evidence standard. Thankfully, the federal government is beating that tendency out of colleges, she said:
quote:
Unfortunately, no legal authority will ever have the chance to examine DOE's very due-process-unfriendly interpretation of the law, because colleges are either too afraid of standing up to the feds, or have an ever-weakening commitment to civil libertarian values. Or both.
Obama administration you scary
This post was edited on 11/8/14 at 3:30 am
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
college rape trials
If you are convicted of college rape, do you go to college jail?
Follow up question - are there also college murder trials?
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
preponderance of evidence basically means you have to have proof it wasn't rape.
An accusation is probably enough.
damn that shits wack.
An accusation is probably enough.
damn that shits wack.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
Wouldn't your thread title be more accurate by saying the DOE says clear and convincing is too high?
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
What are the consequences of conviction? If this is not a criminal "trial" and more civil, isn't POE the correct standard? Again, I guess it depends on the consequences.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:15 pm to Jake88
quote:
What are the consequences of conviction? If this is not a criminal "trial" and more civil, isn't POE the correct standard? Again, I guess it depends on the consequences.
Expulsion, typically.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
Is the DOE really run by SJW's?
Why do colleges think they have a justification for having a lowered standard of proof that a court of law does not for a serious crime like rape?
Why do colleges think they have a justification for having a lowered standard of proof that a court of law does not for a serious crime like rape?
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:22 pm to Jake88
quote:
What are the consequences of conviction? If this is not a criminal "trial" and more civil, isn't POE the correct standard? Again, I guess it depends on the consequences.
Expulsion and you damn well know that shite is following you around for life (which, if you did rape someone, it should).
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:25 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Expulsion, typically.
And a reputation destroyed and name ruined. It's pretty hard to advance in job opportunities and life in general when a college kicked you out because they think you raped or beat someone.
Preponderance of evidence is not something that should be allowed for something like rape, assault or beating as IMO a conviction under that burden amounts to slander when it's not beyond a reasonable doubt in the colleges favor.
This post was edited on 11/7/14 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:29 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
which, if you did rape someone, it should
Not under a lowered standard of proof that's different from a court of law.
Being accused of rape or other serious crimes is a very serious thing to accuse someone of. It ruins people for life. And it should not be that easy to get a conviction due to a lowered standard of proof for that reason.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
Coming soon to a criminal court near you.
Posted on 11/8/14 at 5:19 am to FightinTigersDammit
That's. Ok. Some student will get screwed and sue over due process. He will win.
Posted on 11/8/14 at 6:07 am to SammyTiger
quote:
preponderance of evidence basically means you have to have proof it wasn't rape.
An accusation is probably enough.
damn that shits wack.
Posted on 11/8/14 at 6:42 am to SlowFlowPro
This is dangerous
And scary.
And scary.
Posted on 11/8/14 at 6:57 am to SlowFlowPro
One should always get signed consent before having sex
Posted on 11/8/14 at 7:06 am to runningTiger
even signed consent doesn't get you over the "drunk" issue, which seems to be the scenario that really creates the issues
plus also it 100% confirms you had sex with this person, which can then be used against you
plus also it 100% confirms you had sex with this person, which can then be used against you
Posted on 11/8/14 at 7:20 am to SlowFlowPro
Need a sign consent
And need a registered breathalyzer kit that has recently been certified by the Department of weights and scales. And then you need to go to a notary public to ensure that he signs off on the person being sober
And need a registered breathalyzer kit that has recently been certified by the Department of weights and scales. And then you need to go to a notary public to ensure that he signs off on the person being sober
Posted on 11/8/14 at 7:25 am to runningTiger
What happens if both people are under the influence like most college cases after a party?
Posted on 11/8/14 at 7:28 am to NC_Tigah
We know about the psychological impact of rape. Perhaps the salient follow up is, "What is the psychological impact of false rape accusation and conviction?"
We know false allegations occur.
So what is the threshold for establishing the accuser's guilt?
What is the penalty for the accuser lying?
Oh, and by the way, who is the most frequently targeted demographic?
Black males.
We know false allegations occur.
So what is the threshold for establishing the accuser's guilt?
What is the penalty for the accuser lying?
quote:So while we may not know how many campus rapes go unreported, we do know that false allegations occur. We do know in some studies, of the rapes which were reported, 50% were false allegations. We do know those false allegations were deliberately rendered for secondary gain. Presumably those charges came at no consequence whatsoever to the accuser.
50% of all forcible rape complaints reported on two large Midwestern state universities were false allegations.
44% were of a seemingly trivial and spiteful nature.
Archives of Sexual Behavior, VoL 23, No. 1 1994
In 1988, we gained access to the police records of two large Midwestern state universities. With the assistance of the chief investigating officers for rape offenses, all forcible rape complaints during the past 3 years were examined. Since the two schools produced a roughly comparable number of rape complaints and false rape allegations, the false allegation cases were combined, n = 32. This represents exactly 50% of all forcible rape complaints reported on both campuses. Quite unexpectedly then, we find that these university women, when filing a rape complaint, were as likely to file a false as a valid charge. Other reports from university police agencies support these findings (Jay, 1991).
In both police agencies, the taking of the complaint and the follow-up investigation was the exclusive responsibility of a ranking female officer. Neither agency employed the polygraph and neither declared the complaint false without a recantation of the charge. Most striking is the patterning of the reasons for the false allegations given by the complainants, a patterning similar to that found for the nonstudent city complainants. Approximately one half (53%) of the false charges were verbalized as serving an alibi function. In every case, consensual sexual involvement led to problems whose solution seemed to be found in the filing of a rape charge. The complaints motivated by revenge, about 44%, were of the same seemingly trivial and spiteful nature as those encountered by the city police agency. Only one complainant fell into the attention/sympathy category. These unanticipated but supportive parallel findings on university populations suggest that the complications and conflicts of heterosexual involvements are independent of educational level. In fact, we found nothing substantially different here from those cases encountered by our city police agency.
Oh, and by the way, who is the most frequently targeted demographic?
Black males.
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