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Is it time?
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:48 am
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:48 am
The attack in Ottawa should be a giant sign to people that radical Islam is here. We're lucky that they are neither trained nor organized, but as the population of Islam itself grows here in the West, so also does the population of those Muslims that are or will become radicalized.
Without the mainstream Western Muslims taking a very firm stand (seeking out then outing the radicals in their midst, marching/protesting against the actions and words of the radicals, etc), this issue will not be going away.
To quote an old saying, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Our PC culture (as reflected by the reluctance of news reports to publish Islamic ties when these events happen) is the prefect breeding ground because we don't want to offend anyone by painting with too broad a brush and guerrilla groups like these thrive in such an environment. One day our forbearance in this will cease to be a virtue and become a noose.
So when will it be time to call for Muslim groups to better police themselves (or risk pushing the government to police them better)? Will it be another beheading? A couple more shootings? Maybe a firebomb in a Starbucks?
Or will we wait until enough of the radicals become trained and organized enough to pull off multiple and ongoing acts of real terror?
Without the mainstream Western Muslims taking a very firm stand (seeking out then outing the radicals in their midst, marching/protesting against the actions and words of the radicals, etc), this issue will not be going away.
To quote an old saying, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Our PC culture (as reflected by the reluctance of news reports to publish Islamic ties when these events happen) is the prefect breeding ground because we don't want to offend anyone by painting with too broad a brush and guerrilla groups like these thrive in such an environment. One day our forbearance in this will cease to be a virtue and become a noose.
So when will it be time to call for Muslim groups to better police themselves (or risk pushing the government to police them better)? Will it be another beheading? A couple more shootings? Maybe a firebomb in a Starbucks?
Or will we wait until enough of the radicals become trained and organized enough to pull off multiple and ongoing acts of real terror?
14
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:51 am to Bard
quote:
Without the mainstream Western Muslims taking a very firm stand
here's your problem right there
the fact is that most muslims, in general, do agree with the practice of sharia law; so they essentially won't denounce it, even in its most severe translation
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 10:54 am
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:51 am to Bard
quote:
So when will it be time to call for Muslim groups to better police themselves
This has been called for for decades if memory serves me.
Them doing it is another thing.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:52 am to Bard
Workplace violence
Grassroots jihadis, "inspired" by ISIS.
Not working in concert
= not terrorism.
There is no way these attacks, no matter how numerous or deadly are going to be categorized by the powers-that-be as "terrorist acts" - because, then they'll have to do something.
Grassroots jihadis, "inspired" by ISIS.
Not working in concert
= not terrorism.
There is no way these attacks, no matter how numerous or deadly are going to be categorized by the powers-that-be as "terrorist acts" - because, then they'll have to do something.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:52 am to Bard
The way mainstream Western Muslims treat radicals reminds me of those parents you see on those intervention shows, who have a drug addicted kid and denounce what they do, but at the same time when push comes to shove continues to enable the behavior by letting them live with them rent free and all that, because "I love him too much to just throw him out on the street"
These mainstream Western Muslims are the same way. They can denounce what they do all they want with their mouths, but they need to back it up with action, which they don't do. I am guessing it's because deep down, they agree with the basic principles of the radical movement.
These mainstream Western Muslims are the same way. They can denounce what they do all they want with their mouths, but they need to back it up with action, which they don't do. I am guessing it's because deep down, they agree with the basic principles of the radical movement.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:52 am to Bard
Our focus needs to be on gay marraige and equal pay for women.
Radical Islam can wait
Radical Islam can wait
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:53 am to Bard
I started a thread a while back about at what point we would essentially have to implement a McCarthy-style black list.
Sadly, eventually there may be no other option, because they ALL believe that the sword is a righteous way to deal with a 'nonbeliever'
Sadly, eventually there may be no other option, because they ALL believe that the sword is a righteous way to deal with a 'nonbeliever'
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:54 am to Bard
I don't really know what your proposal is. Muslim groups, some of them, do condemn violence. I think entities like CAIR are enablers if not outright connected to terrorism, but it's also not surprising that groups who really don't see themselves as connected to terroristic entities don't want to be responsible for something they're not involved in.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:55 am to Bard
The Crusades were, in reality, a counterstrike.
Islam has always been spread by the sword.
Islam has always been spread by the sword.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:56 am to genro
quote:
The Crusades were, in reality, a counterstrike
exactly. and more recently, people forget that the latest Israel-Hamas quarrel was begun by Palestine's kidnapping of children
Posted on 10/24/14 at 10:59 am to genro
quote:
Islam has always been spread by the sword.
Christianity was as well, for a relatively brief period.
However, you're correct - Islam has been spread by the sword from it's inception until this moment. It has only slowed down the last couple of hundred years, but has not stopped.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:01 am to genro
quote:
The Crusades were, in reality, a counterstrike.
Islam has always been spread by the sword.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:01 am to Ace Midnight
It hasn't slowed down at all, but it growing exponentially.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:02 am to Bard
The passive response by the general Muslim Population and the media will only make the possibility of something much worse from the extremes of the other side. As the ranks grow and tensions rise we are setting ourselves up for return of complete intolerance and the inevitable consequences.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:03 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
It has only slowed down the last couple of hundred years,
I guess you could assume that only b/c there hasn't been a caliphate to organize mass killings.
however....see the Armenian Genocide around WWI time (that would essentially be during the last caliphate...Ottoman Empire)
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:07 am to mostbesttigerfanever
quote:
I guess you could assume that only b/c there hasn't been a caliphate to organize mass killings.
Maybe it's relative - it is not being spread - by the sword - at the rate it was during the Arab and Turkish expansions.
ISIS, for example, is operating primarily is areas previously controlled by other Muslims - although they are engaging in ethnic cleansing.
But, territorial/population expansions - by the sword - have slowed significantly over the past 200 years. I didn't say "stopped" and I didn't mean to imply the general growth of Islam isn't continuing.
I was addressing the spread of Islam - by the sword.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:10 am to mostbesttigerfanever
quote:
I guess you could assume that only b/c there hasn't been a caliphate to organize mass killings.
however....see the Armenian Genocide around WWI time (that would essentially be during the last caliphate...Ottoman Empire)
Modernization and liberalization also plays a role. White europeans (not in the name of Christianity) slaughtered millions within the last 75 years.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:11 am to Ace Midnight
order of IS events and goals
stage 1: create fear within own people and force them to join or die
stage 2: establish caliphate and accumulate assets (which they are currently trying to do)
stage 3: profit
stage 4: use profits to try and spread like a fricking fungus
stage 1: create fear within own people and force them to join or die
stage 2: establish caliphate and accumulate assets (which they are currently trying to do)
stage 3: profit
stage 4: use profits to try and spread like a fricking fungus
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:14 am to Pettifogger
quote:
White europeans (not in the name of Christianity) slaughtered millions within the last 75 years.
we're discussing something else entirely
it's related b/c ultimately it's about mind control to get the masses on your side, but religion (and if you're talking about Nazi fascism, it was much more about society and race than religion) still has a much stronger hold on most people's mentality and soul than anything societal or political. People have and always will be willing to die in the name of religion, which is why this matter is so significant globally
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 11:16 am
Posted on 10/24/14 at 11:17 am to mostbesttigerfanever
quote:
it's related b/c ultimately it's about mind control to get the masses on your side, but religion still has a much stronger hold on most people's mentality and soul than anything societal or political. People have and always will be willing to die in the name of religion, which is why this matter is so significant globally
I'm not denying it matters, I'm rebutting the idea that Islam somehow hasn't been touched by the change that has impacted other faiths. While I do think Islamic violence poses a greater threat to the world than other religiously-motivated violence, the idea that the average Muslim in the west is simply waiting for the caliphate to return is likely inaccurate.
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