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Offensive Line Age
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:12 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:12 am
Last night, NBC showed how the Cowboys invested so much into their offensive line, with most being 1st round picks. With the exception of Doug Free, all of them were younger than 30. That got me thinking about our offensive line.
Other than Terron Armstead, all of our starters are over 30, with Goodwin the oldest at 35. Our offensive line is looking really really slow for some reason, and I think that is the start of our offensive problems.
I didn't realize how quickly age can creep up on you, but that's getting bad. Since the new CBA, the NFL is really becoming a young man's game and we need to get some new blood on the offensive line.
The only other position that looks as bad age wise is the wide receiver core. Colston (31) does not look as sharp as he usually is, and Meachem (31) has never met his expectations. So draft time next year, we need to really address these two areas early, possibly line before receiver...but if I'm not mistaken, we haven't used a first rounder on an offensive lineman since Jammal Brown.
What say you all? I'll hang up and listen.
Other than Terron Armstead, all of our starters are over 30, with Goodwin the oldest at 35. Our offensive line is looking really really slow for some reason, and I think that is the start of our offensive problems.
I didn't realize how quickly age can creep up on you, but that's getting bad. Since the new CBA, the NFL is really becoming a young man's game and we need to get some new blood on the offensive line.
The only other position that looks as bad age wise is the wide receiver core. Colston (31) does not look as sharp as he usually is, and Meachem (31) has never met his expectations. So draft time next year, we need to really address these two areas early, possibly line before receiver...but if I'm not mistaken, we haven't used a first rounder on an offensive lineman since Jammal Brown.
What say you all? I'll hang up and listen.
8
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:14 am to Mister Flawless
We've done a good job of drafting offensive lineman at later rounds in the draft (Evans and Nicks were both late round picks), don't think we necessarily need to address it early in the draft
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 9:16 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:16 am to Mister Flawless
I have said since last season that our guards were overpaid for their production. They lack strenght at the point of attack, and are getting pushed around.
I stated in the offseason that the O-line needed to be addressed(because it was a big problem) and well.........
I stated in the offseason that the O-line needed to be addressed(because it was a big problem) and well.........
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:16 am to Mister Flawless
I think we have what we believe to be our C of the future. Our tackles are pretty good with Armstead having a huge ceiling. I think we let Grubbs walk this offseason
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:17 am to infantry1026
The guard position is very disappointing.
Jahri and Grubbs, who are both legit probowlers, are just not getting the push they once did. Maybe it's just wear and tear slowing them down, but the Saints will have some interesting choices to make next year.
If we continue like we do and get a high draft pick, I want sure thing impact players early.
Like a MLB and a G.
We can address another corner in free agency.
Jahri and Grubbs, who are both legit probowlers, are just not getting the push they once did. Maybe it's just wear and tear slowing them down, but the Saints will have some interesting choices to make next year.
If we continue like we do and get a high draft pick, I want sure thing impact players early.
Like a MLB and a G.
We can address another corner in free agency.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:18 am to BarbeTiger
For every Evans, Nicks, and Armstead, there's a Andrew Tiller, Tavon Rooks, Marcel Jones, Matt Tennant and Andy Alleman. We have missed more than we have hit in the back end.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:23 am to Mister Flawless
quote:
For every Evans, Nicks, and Armstead, there's a Andrew Tiller, Tavon Rooks, Marcel Jones, Matt Tennant and Andy Alleman. We have missed more than we have hit in the back end.
Kid is on the practice squad and was a 7th round pick. Let's pump the brakes adding him to the bust category until he actually gets a shot, if he ever does.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:26 am to Mister Flawless
I think the problem is our guards for the most part right now, Grubbs in particular.
Jahri had an off year last season and I thought that was due to his injuries and never being 100%...This year he is doing better but still not moving people like he was prior to 2013
Grubbs has not impressed me at all since he came to NOLA.....He is vastly overpaid for the production we have gotten out of him...He's slow off the line, it's sad when he knows the snap count but is getting beat off the line by the defender
DLP was pretty terrible last year...We addressed that with Goody & Lelito...Center hasn't been too bad this year, but could be better....PFF actually had Lelito rated better than Goody last week...I'd like to see Lelito get more snaps, he could be our future and is young
On another note, I was impressed by Bryce Harris last night, I thought for sure he was going to struggle but he held his own in pass coverage....They didn't have to chip to help him much either......his run blocking could use some work though, but for a back up I feel comfortable with him
Jahri had an off year last season and I thought that was due to his injuries and never being 100%...This year he is doing better but still not moving people like he was prior to 2013
Grubbs has not impressed me at all since he came to NOLA.....He is vastly overpaid for the production we have gotten out of him...He's slow off the line, it's sad when he knows the snap count but is getting beat off the line by the defender
DLP was pretty terrible last year...We addressed that with Goody & Lelito...Center hasn't been too bad this year, but could be better....PFF actually had Lelito rated better than Goody last week...I'd like to see Lelito get more snaps, he could be our future and is young
On another note, I was impressed by Bryce Harris last night, I thought for sure he was going to struggle but he held his own in pass coverage....They didn't have to chip to help him much either......his run blocking could use some work though, but for a back up I feel comfortable with him
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:26 am to LSUZombie
quote:
We can address another corner in free agency.
This X 1,000!
This FO needs to stay away from drafting corners at all, because they are obviously turrible at it. I would much rather try in FA ala (Greer & Lewis).
We definitely need some new blood on the O-line. Streif hasn't been horrible, but the interior is pathetic.
An athletic MLB (With a high football IQ) would be money in the 1st or 2nd round. No more fricking projects with these high picks.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:28 am to Mister Flawless
quote:
Other than Terron Armstead, all of our starters are over 30, with Goodwin the oldest at 35. Our offensive line is looking really really slow for some reason, and I think that is the start of our offensive problems.
I would agree that could have a part in the problem, but here is another piece to think about.
Last year we had one of the best defensive lines in the NFL. They're young, they're strong, and they're talented. What's happened this year? They seem ineffective at best, a liability at worst. I have seen our lines on BOTH sides of the ball getting pushed off of the line of scrimmage. You simply cannot win games by not winning the LOS on either side of the ball.
Brings to question our physical training, conditioning, and off-season decisions to make training easier on the players. Too busy golfing instead of lifting? Who knows? All I see is a bunch of guys who aren't playing with any sense of intensity or passion. It's baffling how bad it has gotten in one off-season, I find it hard to believe it's not coaching when there are no major differences on both lines from a personnel perspective.
New center? Maybe DLP wasn't as bad as we were claiming? He's still not very good, I don't see how Goodwin/Lelito are worse than he is.
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 9:32 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:31 am to bountyhunter
quote:
I would agree that could have a part in the problem, but here is another piece to think about.
Last year we had one of the best defensive lines in the NFL. They're young, they're strong, and they're talented. What's happened this year? They seem ineffective at best, a liability at worst. I have seen our lines on BOTH sides of the ball getting pushed off of the line of scrimmage. You simply cannot win games by not winning the LOS on either side of the ball.
Brings to question our physical training, conditioning, and off-season decisions to make training easier on the players. Too busy golfing instead of lifting? Who knows.
I agree 100% on this as well. The youth argument goes both ways. I have no idea what's wrong with the D-line, but I look at it like this. You have a $100 million quarterback to protect....invest in the offensive line to protect him.
As far as the training goes, again 100% agreement. I thought the vacation in West Virginia was stupid, and I think our strength and conditioning may need to be tweaked substantially.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:33 am to Mister Flawless
quote:
For every Evans, Nicks, and Armstead, there's a Andrew Tiller, Tavon Rooks, Marcel Jones, Matt Tennant and Andy Alleman. We have missed more than we have hit in the back end.
No shite?
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:33 am to Mister Flawless
Was Armstead's injury last night serious?
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:59 am to The Sad Banana
Concussion
Posted on 9/29/14 at 10:02 am to Mister Flawless
We can start looking at some of the better MLB's. We will be picking in the 12-15 range. Guarantee it
Posted on 9/29/14 at 11:49 am to Mister Flawless
One of the ESPN talking heads had an interesting take on the Saints O-line in the preseason. He took the age of each O-lineman and added all 5 together to come up with a single number to represent the age of the whole line.
He has observed that once that number gets too high (a threshold is met), performance begins to drop and the higher you go the closer you are to rebuilding.
I recall the saints O line was right on that threshold. With Armstead. He nailed it and said to keep an eye on the Saints O line as its aging.
So if his stat is true, its all downhill form here.
Maybe someone else saw that segment and can provide more details.
He has observed that once that number gets too high (a threshold is met), performance begins to drop and the higher you go the closer you are to rebuilding.
I recall the saints O line was right on that threshold. With Armstead. He nailed it and said to keep an eye on the Saints O line as its aging.
So if his stat is true, its all downhill form here.
Maybe someone else saw that segment and can provide more details.
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 11:52 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 11:51 am to BobBoucher
I believe it was Clayton, and we were right below the number. I'll see if I can find it.
ETA: Found it.
His math was off here, though. 30+30+30+35+23=148.
ETA: Found it.
quote:LINK
Beware of the "Theory of 150": In 2007, I came up with the "Theory of 150." I was looking at an aging offensive line of the Chicago Bears, who were coming off a Super Bowl loss to Indianapolis. The starting offensive line had a combined age of 159, 31.4 per player. Four starters were in their 30s. Once a line gets that old, major repairs and a major drop-off are looming. I used the same theory for the Washington Redskins, Cowboys and Giants over the next few years.
A theory alert is developing for the Saints. Evans, Zach Strief and Grubbs are currently 30. At center, 35-year-old Jonathan Goodwin is competing against Tim Lelito. Armstead is 23. If Goodwin wins at center, the combined age of the line will be 152. This isn't to say the Saints won't be fine this year, but they are starting to get to the point where they must look toward the future. Payton places more value at guard than at tackle because the 6-foot Brees needs a clean pocket. If the pocket starts to collapse because of age, Brees could struggle.
His math was off here, though. 30+30+30+35+23=148.
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 11:57 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 11:53 am to BobBoucher
quote:
One of the ESPN talking heads had an interesting take on the Saints O-line in the preseason. He took the age of each O-lineman and added all 5 together to come up with a single number to represent the age of the whole line.
He has observed that once that number gets too high (a threshold is met), performance begins to drop and the higher you go the closer you are to rebuilding.
I recall the saints O line was right on that threshold. With Armstead.
So if his stat is true, its all downhill form here.
I remember that stat too, but I thought I heard it on Moscona's show one day. Either way, it is a glaring issue.
ETA: Nevermind you guys found it.
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 11:54 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 2:36 pm to Mister Flawless
quote:
For every Evans, Nicks, and Armstead, there's a Andrew Tiller, Tavon Rooks, Marcel Jones, Matt Tennant and Andy Alleman. We have missed more than we have hit in the back end.
I get what you are saying, but the only 1 I would call a miss is Alleman because he was drafted in the 3rd round
I wouldn't call the others "misses" so much because they served as back ups which is a role often reserved for players drafted in rounds 5-7 which I think all of those guys were
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