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LOTR Plot Hole? 6,000 Rohirrim in the 3rd movie.. where were they at Helm's Deep
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:51 pm
So this has always been something that has bothered me about these movies, maybe someone can help me catch something I missed in the film or perhaps it's answered in the books.
Anyway when the Rohirrim attack Sauron's forces at Peleenor Fields the Rohirrim are 6,000 strong right? But where the hell where these guys in the 2nd film at Helm's Deep? I know Gandalf went to go get Eomer but wasn't his group only about 2,000 or so? So where the hell was everyone else?
In the 3rd film didn't they come from other cities in Rohan? Were these guys just going to let their King and the Edoras forces get slaughtered at Helm's Deep? For debate's sake it is possible that they all just wanted to protect their own cities from Saurmon and they had heard that Theoden had been put under a spell anyway?
Anyway when the Rohirrim attack Sauron's forces at Peleenor Fields the Rohirrim are 6,000 strong right? But where the hell where these guys in the 2nd film at Helm's Deep? I know Gandalf went to go get Eomer but wasn't his group only about 2,000 or so? So where the hell was everyone else?
In the 3rd film didn't they come from other cities in Rohan? Were these guys just going to let their King and the Edoras forces get slaughtered at Helm's Deep? For debate's sake it is possible that they all just wanted to protect their own cities from Saurmon and they had heard that Theoden had been put under a spell anyway?
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:54 pm to theGarnetWay
All of the Rohirrim weren't at the Golden Hall.
They had to come from all across the country. Traveling kind of took some time back then. They didn't have fast travel in the realm.
They had to come from all across the country. Traveling kind of took some time back then. They didn't have fast travel in the realm.
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:56 pm to theGarnetWay
Theoden cast them out while he was under Sarumon's spell
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:59 pm to Brosef Stalin
There aren't plot holes to the story. More like overuse of deus ex machina.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:00 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:The Eagles!
deus ex machina.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:13 pm to Brosef Stalin
Theoden had cast them out. News travels slowly as well in middle earth.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:17 pm to Thurber
quote:Yeah. Sauron had control of all the cell towers.
News travels slowly as well in middle earth.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:30 pm to Brosef Stalin
He cast 2000 of them out. The rest were all in their home villages chilling because they didn't know really what was going on. That's why Theoden sat around for 3 days at the entrance to the path of the dead. He was sending out messengers to all these towns summoning them to his army.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:35 pm to athenslife101
The books are consistent.
The movies are not, seeing as how the elves had time to get there and all.
The movies are not, seeing as how the elves had time to get there and all.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:42 pm to Sus-Scrofa
quote:
The movies are not, seeing as how the elves had time to get there and all.
Well there some minor time constraints when dealing with movies
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:45 pm to Sus-Scrofa
I don't know how much of a plot hole that is. The elves were sent to renew the friendship between man and elf. I'm thinking they were sent to go down to Gondor. They would have taken the same waterway to the Falls and then headed overland the rest of the way. By that time, Sauraman would have been invading and the elves probably changed objectives and decided to help out the Rohirrin.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 4:13 pm to theGarnetWay
I don't know much, but I know there's a whole lotta mother frickers up in here talking bad about The Rings.
And I know that shite better stop.
And I know that shite better stop.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 4:50 pm to theGarnetWay
Yeah. As others have said, it takes time to muster an army in that type of society where all the citizens are spread out working their farms, ranches or whatever. The local lords or leaders have to gather their forces, organize them and then travel to where the king is. Heck, I think everyone was not even there yet when they took off for Gondor.
If I remember in the books, they had to travel a shortcut to get to Gondor and had to make a deal with some hill people or something to get through.
If I remember in the books, they had to travel a shortcut to get to Gondor and had to make a deal with some hill people or something to get through.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 4:58 pm to Methuselah
quote:
If I remember in the books, they had to travel a shortcut to get to Gondor and had to make a deal with some hill people or something to get through.
Yeah. It's been awhile since I read RotK but the deal was pretty funny. It was like "yeah, we promise to stop killing y'all and taking your land and stuff."
I think in the books, they did get up to 12,000. And I did the calculations. There were either 200,000 or 600,000 bad guys. And there was no deus ex machina ghost army to win the battle for them.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 5:04 pm to athenslife101
quote:
I think in the books, they did get up to 12,000. And I did the calculations. There were either 200,000 or 600,000 bad guys. And there was no deus ex machina ghost army to win the battle for them.
Yeah but in the book wasn't it some other army instead that helped them out.
Also, I know it takes time for them to get their men together but didn't it take Gandalf 3 days to get Eomer and get him to Helm's Deep. Surely they could've sent our some riders to the other towns and cities in Rohan.
I guess it's really just how it is portrayed in the movie. At Helm's Deep they made it seem like Rohan's last stand, if they fall Rohan is dead. Then in the 3rd movie suddenly their military force is massive.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 5:30 pm to Methuselah
quote:
If I remember in the books, they had to travel a shortcut to get to Gondor and had to make a deal with some hill people or something to get through.
That would be the Wose
Really it was a matter of mustering a rural country that would take time. Eomer's soldiers were already together fighting Saurman's forces against Theoden's wishes, that is why they came together quicker then the rest of the Mark.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 5:33 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
Yeah but in the book wasn't it some other army instead that helped them out
I don't think so. Aragon traveled to the South of Gondor on the ships and picked up some more soldiers but it wasn't a huge army.
quote:
Also, I know it takes time for them to get their men together but didn't it take Gandalf 3 days to get Eomer and get him to Helm's Deep. Surely they could've sent our some riders to the other towns and cities in Rohan.
I imagine it is a somewhat similar to the books. There are battles being fought all over Rohan at the time. When Gandalf finds the large group of soldiers, they're already fighting the enemy. He tells them to drop what they're doing and leave. He also sends contingents to go fight at other places in Rohan where there is fighting to help them but takes most of them to Helm's Deep. In the books, they make note of many soldiers who were fighting were separated and leaderless and just wandering around the countryside. It is all a disorganized mess. That's why Theoden feels so guilty in the 3rd movie. He should have gathered all the soldiers earlier but didn't.
quote:
I guess it's really just how it is portrayed in the movie. At Helm's Deep they made it seem like Rohan's last stand, if they fall Rohan is dead. Then in the 3rd movie suddenly their military force is massive.
If most of the leadership of a country is wiped out, it's pretty hard to put up serious resistance. Everything would have been delayed even more.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 6:55 pm to athenslife101
I'm re-watching the 2nd one now. They keep trying to tell the king not to stay at Helm's deep. Where do they want him to go? They keep saying to fight. So do they want him to abandon the fortress and meet the superior force on the battle field?
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