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How underrated is Dave Dombrowski as a GM?
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:04 pm
Grantland Article
quote:
His first opportunity to run a ball club came with the Montreal Expos back in 1988, when he was 31 years old, making him one of the youngest GMs in modern baseball history to that point. In four years at the helm, he built the foundation for the legendary 1994 Expos team that might have won a championship but for the strike. When he left after the 1991 season, the organization was stuffed with talent, including Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom, Moises Alou, Cliff Floyd, Rondell White, Delino DeShields, Wil Cordero, Jeff Fassero, Kirk Rueter, and Mel Rojas.
quote:
Dombrowski’s talent for player development shone through again: Despite being such a young franchise, the 1997 Marlins fielded homegrown stars at catcher (Charles Johnson) and shortstop (Edgar Renteria), and Cuban defector Livan Hernandez had become an instant sensation as a rookie.
Dombrowski’s knack for major league scouting, which has played such a role in his success in Detroit, manifested in Miami as well. The Marlins picked up a hard thrower with no command named Robb Nen for next to nothing, then molded him into an elite reliever. They got a converted shortstop named Trevor Hoffman in the expansion draft, then traded him for Gary Sheffield. They signed Kevin Brown as a free agent right before he turned into Kevin Brown. They signed Al Leiter, who had just come off the first good season of his career, and he proved it was not a fluke. And so on.
quote:
Overall, the Tigers have won their trades by a factor of more than 2-to-1 since Dombrowski was hired, for a surplus total of 104 wins over 11 years.6 That’s more than nine wins a year. Think about that: The Tigers have won roughly nine additional games every season under Dombrowski by using the trade market. Take away nine wins each year, and the Tigers would have posted a losing record over the last eight years, and would have made the playoffs just once, in 2011.
The only blemish on Dombrowski’s record came in 2007, when he made three bad trades in the span of three months. He traded Jack Hannahan (7.7 bWAR over the next five years) for Jason Perry (-0.5 bWAR) in August, and after the season traded Jair Jurrjens (10.7) and Gorkys Hernandez (-0.6) for Renteria (1.1), then swapped Infante (11.0) for Jacque Jones (-1.9). Incredibly, Dombrowski has made only one other truly bad trade during his entire Detroit tenure. Here’s a list of every significant trade on his ledger in which either side got at least 5 bWAR out of the deal over the five proceeding years:
quote:
The Tigers won 11 of these 15 trades, and their five best trades were all more lopsided than their worst trade. It’s even debatable whether two of the trades they “lost” should count against them. Cody Ross didn’t hit for another three years after the trade, having been dumped or waived by both the Dodgers and Reds in the interim; Hannahan is a defensive whiz at third base, but has never really hit. That leaves just two trades the Tigers really regret making in 12 years. Other than that, they hit home run after home run, and their surplus figures continue to grow over time. They acquired four of the best players — Sanchez, Max Scherzer, Austin Jackson, and Cabrera — on the current roster in these trades.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:17 pm to tduecen
He is definitely one of the best GM's in the game. I love the comments from some people when he makes a deal and people are like WTF? They have no idea about baseball. They just hear a name and say yay or nay
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:17 pm to tduecen
I haven't read the whole article yet but I'm about to when I get home from work.
He doesn't have the name recognition or the "revolutionary" status of someone like Beane Epstein or Friedman but I think most who follow the game closely realize how good he is. I think sabermetrics are neat but I can appreciate someone being good at the job doing it the old fashioned way as well
He doesn't have the name recognition or the "revolutionary" status of someone like Beane Epstein or Friedman but I think most who follow the game closely realize how good he is. I think sabermetrics are neat but I can appreciate someone being good at the job doing it the old fashioned way as well
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:18 pm to tduecen
He is one of the best in the business. Dude wins.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:21 pm to BCMCubs
Honestly I had no idea his connection to the Expos, I knew he was the Marlins GM but I always remembered him more for what happened after the firesale
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:24 pm to tduecen
The clusterfrick he inherited in Detroit might have been the worst situation of all those. They were horrific
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:25 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
Yup, in article it states he has best 3 year turn around in history
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:25 pm to tduecen
I'm a big fan of his. I didn't know there were people who didn't think he was a great GM. What more does he have to do?
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:26 pm to Baloo
quote:Win a WS in Detroit
What more does he have to do?
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:26 pm to BCMCubs
It's hard to considered underrated when you boast such a resume and been in the game for this long. I can't think of why or who that would think he's underrated. Maybe his name doesn't get publicized enough, but not that many GM's are. It's more or less the coach's job to be in the spotlight and the GM to remain behind the scenes.
This post was edited on 4/11/14 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:35 pm to papz
quote:When people ask best GM's in business you hear, Theo, Cashmen, Beane, Cherington, Hoyer, Jocketty, Moore, Colletti, Huntington, Sabean, Friedman.
It's hard to considered underrated when you boast such a resume and been in the game for this long. I can't think of why or who that would think he's underrated. Maybe his name doesn't get publicized enough, but not that many GM's are. It's more or less the coach's job to be in the spotlight and the GM to remain behind the scenes.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:46 pm to tduecen
When you hear about Epstein and Cashman, a part of that is due to the fact they play in big big global media markets and they've been the GM of two of baseball's most storied franchises. Beane due to the saber-metric "phenomena" and Jocketty because he's just a consistent winner.
Maybe he doesn't get enough public credit among the average baseball follower, but I'm sure people in the baseball world that matter hold him in high regard. He is Detroit and was kind of overshadowed by Leyland when he was there.
Maybe he doesn't get enough public credit among the average baseball follower, but I'm sure people in the baseball world that matter hold him in high regard. He is Detroit and was kind of overshadowed by Leyland when he was there.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:49 pm to papz
Well yeah people in baseball world, but I consider myself a huge baseball fan and even I was taken back by what he has actually accomplished. I didn't realize he did what he did for the Expos and was that instrumental with the Marlins.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:51 pm to tduecen
I probably underrated him. I knew what he had built but the numbers in the article on how often he wins trades were mind boggling.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:02 pm to tduecen
I still remember watching that Expos team. Man were they fun to watch.
Personally I don't give much credit for the WS in Florida. They essentially bought that damn thing... Yankee style. Not saying there's anything wrong with that. A ring is a ring is a ring at the end of the day. Whatever it takes to get there. They had the means to do it and they did.
Personally I don't give much credit for the WS in Florida. They essentially bought that damn thing... Yankee style. Not saying there's anything wrong with that. A ring is a ring is a ring at the end of the day. Whatever it takes to get there. They had the means to do it and they did.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:10 pm to papz
I remember watching but I was younger and didn't understand the roll of the GM at the time
Al Leiter only had 1 season under a 4.00 ERA before heading to the Marlins
Bonilla was 34 years old and seen to be on downside of career
Alou was a FA and a smart signing
Sheffield was traded for, the Marlins gave up Trevor Hoffman
Devon White was a FA signing
quote:Disagree They brought in Kevin Brown before he was great and only "good" only 2 seasons in which he had under a 3.50 ERA vs 5 with over and then he became what we know....
They essentially bought that damn thing
Al Leiter only had 1 season under a 4.00 ERA before heading to the Marlins
Bonilla was 34 years old and seen to be on downside of career
Alou was a FA and a smart signing
Sheffield was traded for, the Marlins gave up Trevor Hoffman
Devon White was a FA signing
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:17 pm to tduecen
We're going going to agree to disagree on that. That's just the way I've always felt about it and nothing is going to change my mind on that. I do however understand the other side of the scope though.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:19 pm to papz
I guess so, because most of the players were home grown with a few acquired through trades and free agency, basically the way any team is built
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