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Started By
Message
Help settle debate- westerns
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:11 pm
To me, westerns are a specific genre. Just because a movie takes place in the old west, doesn't make it a western.
For example: Tombstone is an action film. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is a buddy-cop film. Albeit the first one.
Whereas Copland, taking place in 90s New Jersey, is a western. Seven Samurai, set in medieval Japan, is a western.
Am I wrong? Or is my friend who claims any film set in the west is automatically a western?
For example: Tombstone is an action film. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is a buddy-cop film. Albeit the first one.
Whereas Copland, taking place in 90s New Jersey, is a western. Seven Samurai, set in medieval Japan, is a western.
Am I wrong? Or is my friend who claims any film set in the west is automatically a western?
13
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:15 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Am I wrong?
Yes
Tombstone is an action western. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is a buddy-cop western.
This post was edited on 3/19/14 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:18 pm to magildachunks
Almost all movies are good vs. bad. If the conflict takes place in the Wild West, is a Western. Butch Cassidy, Western. Tombstone, Western. Copeland, urban.
Seven Samurai, Japanese. Magnificent Seven, western.
Imo.
Seven Samurai, Japanese. Magnificent Seven, western.
Imo.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:19 pm to magildachunks
Copland is most definitely not a western. You might think Seven Samurai is a western because The Wild Bunch and several other movies are based on it, but it is not.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:21 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:
You might think Seven Samurai is a western because The Wild Bunch and several other movies are based on it, but it is not.
Kurosawa said he wrote it as a western.
quote:
Copland is most definitely not a western.
Closer to being a western than Tombstone is
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:45 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Closer to being a western than Tombstone is
Except it's not
Posted on 3/20/14 at 3:39 am to magildachunks
Confused how butch Cassidy and Sundance are cops? When I hear buddy-cop I think of lethal weapon and rush hour type stuff.
Tombstone is definitely Western, not the same as pale rider maybe, but it's not chalk full of action like an action movie is.
Tombstone is definitely Western, not the same as pale rider maybe, but it's not chalk full of action like an action movie is.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 8:32 am to magildachunks
I guess I see the point you're making, but I tend to agree with your friend. There are many ways in which the term western can be applied, and it think it doesn't really define a genre of films very well.
If a film has a western setting, it creates an instant short cut to building a backdrop with certain rules and assumptions. The themes of good vs. evil play out nicely in the generally lawless wild west. You also have a built in ethos of generally tough minded individuals. There are other types as well, but the point is that the setting dictates a certain set of established parameters.
Without the setting, the same genre and type of movie can be made, but the feel is very different.
If a film has a western setting, it creates an instant short cut to building a backdrop with certain rules and assumptions. The themes of good vs. evil play out nicely in the generally lawless wild west. You also have a built in ethos of generally tough minded individuals. There are other types as well, but the point is that the setting dictates a certain set of established parameters.
Without the setting, the same genre and type of movie can be made, but the feel is very different.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 8:38 am to magildachunks
quote:
Am I wrong?
Yes
Posted on 3/20/14 at 9:00 am to SG_Geaux
quote:
Yes
Tombstone is an action western.
Actually I'd call Tombstone a comedy. The main reason anybody likes it is b/c of the witty dialog that makes you laugh. It's not Blazing Saddles though.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 9:10 am to magildachunks
The Ultimate example of a Western.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 9:40 am to magildachunks
Westerns have a very defining characteristic: The scenery and landscape is a significant part of the story. For example, the pilot of Justified was a western set in Kentucky (well, actually Pennsylvania but close enough). The scenery and land played an important part to add to the authenticity of the story. I stopped watching Justified because southern California looks nothing like Kentucky.
I like to see the country.
I like to see the country.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 9:41 am to magildachunks
quote:Sort of on board until this. 1) They're not cops. 2) It's a western.
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is a buddy-cop film.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 10:02 am to magildachunks
quote:yes
Am I wrong?
quote:no
my friend who claims any film set in the west is automatically a western?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 10:09 am to magildachunks
i've never considered Tombstone to be anything other than a western.
what else does anybody need to consider it a western? john ford directing?
what else does anybody need to consider it a western? john ford directing?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 10:34 am to magildachunks
Copland is a thriller. Now you can have westerns that are thrillers like No Country For Old Men but Copland does not fit this bill.
I know what you're saying those that elements that are present in the western genre also work well in other genres and settings.
I know what you're saying those that elements that are present in the western genre also work well in other genres and settings.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 11:37 am to SWCBonfire
quote:
Westerns have a very defining characteristic: The scenery and landscape is a significant part of the story.
Correct. In film study, these are called 'conventions.' The setting of westerns plays a major role, and is one of the most important conventions.
Star Wars is not a western.
Posted on 3/20/14 at 11:42 am to magildachunks
quote:Good lord. You couldn't be more wrong.
Am I wrong?
Actually, If you were anymore wrong, you would loop back to being right.
Pretty much almost all westerns can be subdivided into buddy flicks, revenge flicks, or cop flicks.
This post was edited on 3/20/14 at 11:52 am
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