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re: what nick saban did for LSU
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:34 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:34 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
Oh, dear Lord! Face it. Les is a clown. Has always been a clown, and will always be a clown. I realize he's not going anywhere anytime soon, so let's just enjoy the ride, lower our expectations to third in the SECW, and pray for a Cotton Bowl berth; it's the best we can expect for some time to come.
Not sure if serious. But Les is not a clown when it comes to coaching abilities.
Les is a great coach, Saban is a great coach. LSU does not have to automatically take a back seat to any team in the SEC or in the nation.
This year is about where everyone with a brain thought it would be and we are sitting at two losses by a TOTAL of 6 points and you act like we are freaking YEARS removed from being competitive.
Do you realize how freaking AWESOME it is to root for a team that allows you to hold serious thoughts of title contention each and every year?
We lost a ton of people to the draft, many of whom are having great rookie seasons.
2
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:37 am to Jacknola
quote:
LSU was pitiful and desparate, at the BOTTOM of the SEC with Vandy and Kentucky when Saban came in.
no we weren't. we were at the bottom when Dinardo got there, but there was a good amt of talent on the team when Saban got there. it was young talent, but good talent nonetheless.
it really wasn't that far-fetched of an idea that we could go to a bowl in Saban's first yr provided we were healthy (OL in particular was hurt by injuries Dinardo's last yr), and the young guys developed.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:39 am to ATLTiger
quote:dinardo's last two seasons were 4-7 and 3-8. So yes we were at the bottom record-wise but the team did have some talented players.
no we weren't. we were at the bottom when Dinardo got there,
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:44 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:Absolutely correct.
contrary to some on here, esp the younger ones, nick saban did not create LSU as a national power. he did not "make" LSU. LSU was not a dismal program before he came and resurrected it.
nick saban is not the reason LSU has a great program now.
LSU was bad in the 1990s. People who speak glowingly of Saban will point to the post-Arnsparger era.
However, in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, LSU regularly went to Top Tier bowls.
quote:Gerry DiNardo taught the LSU administration two very important lessons.
but nick saban was very important for LSU's climb back from the years of mediocre head coaching. gerry dinardo had already built the "fence" and was recruiting louisiana very well and the talent was there for a good coach to come in and take the team to higher ground. but LSU's weaknesses were....
1)a meddling administration and "good ole boy" network around the state that wanted to have a voice in the program.
2)low coaching pay scales. this create a conundrum when hiring a new coach; LSU simply would not pay for top new talent, head coach or asst. coaches
3)money. no taf. there was no long term plan for funding athletic teams and title 9 (?) required lots of money be spent on non revenue generating womans sports.
so saban came in and "taught" the administration you get what you pay for. if LSU wanted to be periniel (sp) top 10 again they had to raise the funds necessary to expand and improve the facilities, including a state of the art academic center and enough funds to attract top coaches. when LSU won the NC in '03 (remember, saban had lost FIVE games the year before) the tide turned. LSU now knew he was correct. of course saban had already stepped on lots of good ole boy toes and now he could stomp on them.
First, LSU could return to its pre-Archer success. LSU could be an elite team. DiNardo built the Louisiana fence and refilled the LSU talent cupboard. His last two years are NOT a reflection of the talent he recruited for players. To the contrary, his last two years are a reflection of the talent he could hire for assistant coaches.
Second, LSU had to fund the football program to be successful. When LSU looked for a head coach after DiNardo, LSU knew that it couldn't go cheap anymore. DiNardo and Tepper taught LSU that it needed to spend money to hire elite coaches. When dealing the the LSU administration, Saban could always point to the DiNardo era and show LSU what happens when it went cheap. Saban used DiNardo to argue to LSU that if LSU wanted success, LSU had to pay for success. The timing was perfect for Saban.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:46 am to Jacknola
Yes I remember him and what he did with Sparty at MSU - Especially when LSU beat him in the Independence Bowl with Dinardo as coach and all the talent Dinardo brought in!
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:52 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
LSU most definately helped make his career. he earned it but if he would have taken a different job his career might never have really launched imo. LSU was indeed a giant just awakening from a series of lousy HC decisions
Well said. Remember, Northwesternwon the Big 10 twice while Saban was at Michigan State.The Spartans didn't exactly set the world on fire and as soon as he left and that flunky Bobby Williams took over, they crashed.
Remember, LSU was ranked in the top 10 in Sept of 1998 and DiNardo's refusal to change Tepper's style killed that team. They needed to go,but it wasn't like Saban was left with an empty cupboard.Some very talented DiNardo recruits were on the 2000,2001 and 2002 teams.
But good luck convincing the Sabanistas that LSU had ever had a winning season prior to their savior's arrival.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:52 am to ehidal1
quote:
Nick made us an elite program
Nick made us a national championship program again.
I'm not sure we had a period under Nick that I could refer to an "elite program". I think "elite program" requires a number of years in a row of elite level number of wins or elite national rankings. Nick had 1 yr where LSU was in the Top 5 and 2 yrs where LSU was in the Top 10.
I think LSU needed the efforts of both Nick and Les to reach the elite level where our program is housed now.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 11:53 am to Jacknola
quote:
Whatever Saban was or wasn't at LSU, he DID "restore" a program that was not just in decline, it had declined to the bottom of the SEC. It is probably more accurate to say "He created a program..." as there was nothing, history or precedent, to "restore" to
Wow. There are some stupid Gumps and then there is this moron. What an idiot.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:02 pm to LSU GrandDad
Mark Emert came in and started rebuilding the football program. Part of that rebuilding was raising coaches saleries and hiring an up and coming head coach. Nick Saban
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:03 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Les is a great coach,
Please, please, please make it stop!
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:07 pm to Balloon Pilot
quote:This.
Mark Emert came in and started rebuilding the football program. Part of that rebuilding was raising coaches saleries and hiring an up and coming head coach. Nick Saban
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:08 pm to LSU GrandDad
I don't care what Saban did or did not do for LSU. He is still an arrogant a-hole ate up with short man disease, and he always will be. 
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:14 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Wow. There are some stupid Gumps and then there is this moron. What an idiot
Do you even bother to look at LSU's record? Since 1970, other than the 3-year Arnsbarger (truly an excellent coach) era, LSU was almost always middle of the pack or worse in the SEC until Saban. You are the fool who believes in these myths repeated by ignorant and football deficient younger "fans."
"Dinardo left a strong recruiting class, common knowledge." Bull Shite... you all may repeat that over and over just to try to degrade Saban's accomplishments... but at the time in the late '90s, just about all the fans were in complete desperation because not only was the record bad and getting worse, recruiting was thought to be going to the dogs.
Rewrite history all you want you dumb as as post corn dogs. I was there... I know the truth.
This post was edited on 11/1/13 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:15 pm to LSU GrandDad
Well old fart...this didn't go the way you planned huh? 
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:16 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
without the NC the program may not have got the jump start it needed; saban's body of work alone simply was not good enough nor than outstanding.
Oh so him getting and winning that NC doesn't count?
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:17 pm to Jacknola
quote:
Jacknola
quote:
Alabama Fan
quote:
I just can't abide delusions
Seriously? You want to go down this road?
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:26 pm to Balloon Pilot
Emmert was the one who decided to pay and take Joe Dean out of the loop on the salary.
He was also smart enough to know that allowing Nick to use the bully pulpit to get more money coming in for facilities.
He also knew that the only man who could drag LSU into the modern arms race was Skip Bertman. Anyone else as A.D. and we are back to the Joe Deam Era.
I was less worried when Saban left as I was when Emmert left. His philosophy of a winning sports program leads to a "Better LSU" was what was needed.
The only problem is it leads to a corporate and spoiled fan base. A continuing escalation of fees and revenue to compete in that "arms-race" and overall decline in the small college feel of the "Flagship".
Saban did build what we have now, he set it in motion. I don't know if post 2007 Les could have done that, I know pre 2007 Les couldn't and I know post 2011, couldn't do that. However, they don't need the coach any more to do what Saban and Emmert faught for.
Think about it, truly look at it. We were all excited because we got Vanderbilt's coach with a losing record.
I am not enamored with Saban, but he laid the foundation. Emmert made it happen. Skip implemented it, and Les has luckily maintained it. He is good guy, but it took a hard arse like Saban to get it moving.
He was also smart enough to know that allowing Nick to use the bully pulpit to get more money coming in for facilities.
He also knew that the only man who could drag LSU into the modern arms race was Skip Bertman. Anyone else as A.D. and we are back to the Joe Deam Era.
I was less worried when Saban left as I was when Emmert left. His philosophy of a winning sports program leads to a "Better LSU" was what was needed.
The only problem is it leads to a corporate and spoiled fan base. A continuing escalation of fees and revenue to compete in that "arms-race" and overall decline in the small college feel of the "Flagship".
Saban did build what we have now, he set it in motion. I don't know if post 2007 Les could have done that, I know pre 2007 Les couldn't and I know post 2011, couldn't do that. However, they don't need the coach any more to do what Saban and Emmert faught for.
Think about it, truly look at it. We were all excited because we got Vanderbilt's coach with a losing record.
I am not enamored with Saban, but he laid the foundation. Emmert made it happen. Skip implemented it, and Les has luckily maintained it. He is good guy, but it took a hard arse like Saban to get it moving.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:27 pm to LSU GrandDad
$aban awakened what many of us "old timers" felt the LSU FB program was--a sleeping giant of resources, facilities, and recruiting base.
CLM has only built on what $aban did, except he has no UAB/ULM type loss on his record.
CLM has only built on what $aban did, except he has no UAB/ULM type loss on his record.
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:30 pm to tiger94gop
Posted on 11/1/13 at 12:30 pm to The Mick
You guys are hilarious.
IF Saban was so good.... after 5 years...why wasn't he was blowing up the Big 10 world at Michigan State? Why was he just a "good coach" then? In fact, LSU blew Saban and MSU out in Shreveport when DiNardo was our coach. It's
about who you are where you are, and what you got, guys.
Ohio State and Michigan have no in state competition, can tap tons of talent, and had
the (back then) facility advantages. Michigan State would have NEVER caught them, even with Saban. Michigan State never will, either.
Anyone who thinks that LSU was going to stay a middle tier or even bad football program, knowing the explosion of high school talent in the area, knowing money that became involved with college football and specifically the SEC, is an idiot.
LSU was always a x-factor; in the late 1980s thru the late 1990s coaching hires, worn facilities, and $$ were the downfall. The LSU administrators (Chancellor Wharton and Emmert specifically) knew what was needed and did it. In the process they got the last piece of the puzzle and in the process hit the home run with Saban.
IMO, given LSU's plan back then in 1999, many other coaches would yielded the same results (8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1, and 9-4) that Saban had.
While Saban deserves a TON of credit, Wharton
and Emmert laid the blueprint, LSU built the facilities, which were far and away at that
point the best in the SEC, bar none. The kids
saw and started to come to LSU. Kids from Texas saw LSU as a viable option. So did kids in the lower area of the Sun Belt.
LSU was miles ahead of everyone in these terms by 2004. It's the same blueprint everybody copied (yes,including Alabama even before Saban).
And it's not going to change since LSU has the same advantage that teams like Ohio State and Michigan have, (that is, unless Tulane, Rice, Southern Miss and Florida Panhandle U start to become factors). Great coaches will drool to come to LSU. The moment Miles leaves LSU won't have a problem getting a top notch coach.
Now lets go back and apply what I said about Ohio State and Michigan.
Case in point: Bama had the same situation for years and knew they would not crawl out of LSU's emerging dominance Many Bama coaches came and went, with occasional success against LSU.
Alabama realized early on it needed a top level coach just to level the playing field, so they got Saban.
The funny thing is...even with sabanmm thisis how close it is....take away the 2012 mulligan, no one is even talking this way about Alabama. It would be all about LSU, period. With or without Saban at Bama. Saban has been at Bama now for 7 years, LSU has Miles, Saban regins as God supreme with some foolish gumps yet somehow LSU is still elite, and still the overall best program in this millenium in the SEC. Still the game Bama has to circle.
The facts speak for themselves: Tied with the most BCSCG appearances, most BCS bowls, most SEC titles, most SECCG appearances, most SEC Western titles, most SEC wins, most overall wins, least losses. LSU trails NO ONE in the SEC head to head in this millenium. PERIOD. No one has won more in this millenium than LSU.
And that's not just Nick Saban's doing. It's because of ALL the factors. LSU figured it out, and nothing has been the same in the SEC since.
And in all likelyhood, as this millenium continues on, and kids in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi Alabama and Florida want to go to LSU, it's going to stay that way.
We're talking 14 years now, guys. Saban was
here for 5. He HELPED get the ball rolling
in the direction it always should have been.
We've pretty much been on top or near the top more often than not since then. Bottom line, you all miss the real point. What LSU did for Nick Saban is easily as important as what Nick Saban did for LSU.
What LSU did for the rest of the SEC was bigger.
IF Saban was so good.... after 5 years...why wasn't he was blowing up the Big 10 world at Michigan State? Why was he just a "good coach" then? In fact, LSU blew Saban and MSU out in Shreveport when DiNardo was our coach. It's
about who you are where you are, and what you got, guys.
Ohio State and Michigan have no in state competition, can tap tons of talent, and had
the (back then) facility advantages. Michigan State would have NEVER caught them, even with Saban. Michigan State never will, either.
Anyone who thinks that LSU was going to stay a middle tier or even bad football program, knowing the explosion of high school talent in the area, knowing money that became involved with college football and specifically the SEC, is an idiot.
LSU was always a x-factor; in the late 1980s thru the late 1990s coaching hires, worn facilities, and $$ were the downfall. The LSU administrators (Chancellor Wharton and Emmert specifically) knew what was needed and did it. In the process they got the last piece of the puzzle and in the process hit the home run with Saban.
IMO, given LSU's plan back then in 1999, many other coaches would yielded the same results (8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1, and 9-4) that Saban had.
While Saban deserves a TON of credit, Wharton
and Emmert laid the blueprint, LSU built the facilities, which were far and away at that
point the best in the SEC, bar none. The kids
saw and started to come to LSU. Kids from Texas saw LSU as a viable option. So did kids in the lower area of the Sun Belt.
LSU was miles ahead of everyone in these terms by 2004. It's the same blueprint everybody copied (yes,including Alabama even before Saban).
And it's not going to change since LSU has the same advantage that teams like Ohio State and Michigan have, (that is, unless Tulane, Rice, Southern Miss and Florida Panhandle U start to become factors). Great coaches will drool to come to LSU. The moment Miles leaves LSU won't have a problem getting a top notch coach.
Now lets go back and apply what I said about Ohio State and Michigan.
Case in point: Bama had the same situation for years and knew they would not crawl out of LSU's emerging dominance Many Bama coaches came and went, with occasional success against LSU.
Alabama realized early on it needed a top level coach just to level the playing field, so they got Saban.
The funny thing is...even with sabanmm thisis how close it is....take away the 2012 mulligan, no one is even talking this way about Alabama. It would be all about LSU, period. With or without Saban at Bama. Saban has been at Bama now for 7 years, LSU has Miles, Saban regins as God supreme with some foolish gumps yet somehow LSU is still elite, and still the overall best program in this millenium in the SEC. Still the game Bama has to circle.
The facts speak for themselves: Tied with the most BCSCG appearances, most BCS bowls, most SEC titles, most SECCG appearances, most SEC Western titles, most SEC wins, most overall wins, least losses. LSU trails NO ONE in the SEC head to head in this millenium. PERIOD. No one has won more in this millenium than LSU.
And that's not just Nick Saban's doing. It's because of ALL the factors. LSU figured it out, and nothing has been the same in the SEC since.
And in all likelyhood, as this millenium continues on, and kids in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi Alabama and Florida want to go to LSU, it's going to stay that way.
We're talking 14 years now, guys. Saban was
here for 5. He HELPED get the ball rolling
in the direction it always should have been.
We've pretty much been on top or near the top more often than not since then. Bottom line, you all miss the real point. What LSU did for Nick Saban is easily as important as what Nick Saban did for LSU.
What LSU did for the rest of the SEC was bigger.
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