Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish | Page 5 | TigerDroppings.com

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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
6189 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

I was talking about the entire catfish market.

Fresh fish sales are such a small portion of our sales that it is largely insignificant when looking at the whole picture. It is only about 1/10th of sales..the rest are frozen filets.


Please Mr. Deltaland please get someone else to speak for the industry.

The statement above just is not true. Not even close to true.

You have told me grains were always cheaper after harvest. You have told me all grain farmers were selling at last year's prices. on and on. All of it, in polite terms, huge exaggerations.

Read this report on catfish production and look at the charts on pages ix, x and xi

LINK







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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
6189 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

You are so focused on one little portion due to your narrow minded ideology that you can't see the big picture here. What do you do about the thousands of jobs lost? Have you ever been to the delta or black belt region? There is nothing else available for those people to go to if they lose their job on the farm or fish plant or feed mill. They'll just simply go on welfare if they lose their job. They don't have the means to move elsewhere. Entire towns here are dependent on the revenues generated from the catfish industry


So your position now is we should help special interest employers to save jobs. You would have all the Western Union operators on the payroll. The pony express would still be riding if they had the lobbying money of catfish producers. Lame crap.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
6189 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Delta's creditability is completely shot with me.

The fresh market is very nearly the same size as the frozen according the link above.

US producers dominate that market for obvious reasons.

If I am a Mississippi catfish grower I hope my domestic competitors go out of business because there is an obvious demand for fresh fish and I would want to be the biggest producer.

How STUPID is it to stay in business if it is as bad as Delta would have us to believe?

The truth is so long as that fresh market is not flooded with supply of domestic catfish I suspect producers left are making a profit. The biggest enemy of a Mississippi catfish producer are those competitors in his business--domestic fresh and frozen catfish producers--and those competitors are other Mississippi catfish growers.



This post was edited on 9/17 at 11:23 pm


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Read this report on catfish production


According to the report, there was an average monthly inventory of 550,000 lbs of fresh product. There was an average monthly inventory of 10.4 million lbs of frozen product.


If you look at the charts and do the math, fresh is about 25% of sales now (mostly due to a sharper decline in frozen sales). My point still stands, frozen is the vast majority of our sales...if we lose the frozen market the industry goes under. Period.






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

You would have all the Western Union operators on the payroll. The pony express


Nice strawman


Both were replace by better technology. Still the new technology created domestic jobs for those people to shift to.

Our industry has no replacement in the area that it is in for these people. There is nothing else..no manufacturing, no energy resources, nothing but vast fields for row crops which really don't supply near the number of jobs that catfish farms and plants do.

quote:

So your position now is we should help special interest employers to save jobs.


Considering the Government created the problem and not the employers themselves, yes. Why should we suffer due to Gov't policies that forces people out of work? Just because of your ideology that is about as unrealistic of ever happening in this country as the liberals ideology of complete wealth distribution and racial harmony? We should just give up our lives, jobs and way of life because the Gov't decided to screw us..at least we have an ideology woo hoo.


Go frick yourself with an aids infested dick and do us all a favor.







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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
4812 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Delta's creditability is completely shot with me. The fresh market is very nearly the same size as the frozen according the link above.


He is correct in that the majority of catfish market is frozen. There are not a lot of restaurants that use fresh catfish. There is too much spoilage when using fresh catfish.

He is also correct in that it is very hard for domestic companies to compete against the imports. This goes for the shrimp industry also. There have been so many catfish farms that have went out of business in the last 20 years due to imports. Same goes with the domestic shrimp industry.

This comes from someone who was in the wholesale seafood industry in south Louisiana for 20+ years(my father has been in it 55+ years). I have seen the shrimp industry along with the yellowfin and finfish industry decimated by imports. There is no debate about this. Talk to anyone that has been in the seafood industry for any significant time and they will tell you the same.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
6189 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Multiply the priced of fresh times the pounds of fresh produced and multiply the pounds of imported frozen by the average price of imported fish and tell me the markets for fresh is as small as you say.





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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

The truth is so long as that fresh market is not flooded with supply of domestic catfish I suspect producers left are making a profit. The biggest enemy of a Mississippi catfish producer are those competitors in his business--domestic fresh and frozen catfish producers--and those competitors are other Mississippi catfish growers.


So you're saying to force others out of business? Force people you grew up with your entire life to go without a job so as an individual you can monopolize the market?

Yet you fail to understand the vast amount of infrastructure needed to run a catfish farm. If we lose many more producers, then the feed mills won't make money due to lack of feed sales and neither will equipment manufacturers (both are already struggling, especial equipment manufacturers) , so you lose all support and therefore you can't operate due to lack of needed supplies.

For the industry to work, you need multiple producers. The fresh market itself isn't enough to maintain the infrastructure, because we would only need AT MOST 1/3 of the current acreage to supply it. Probably less than that.






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Talk to anyone that has been in the seafood industry for any significant time and they will tell you the same.


IB obviously knows way more than anyone who was actually involved in the industry.






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Multiply the priced of fresh times the pounds of fresh produced and multiply the pounds of imported frozen by the average price of imported fish and tell me the markets for fresh is as small as you say.




Considering Domestic fresh fish cost 3x that of frozen imports, of course multiplying the pounds sold by cost would make them seem closer if you're looking at sales revenue.

That's comparing apples to oranges.

I'm talking on a production volume..frozen imports were over 200 million pounds. US raised catfish fresh and frozen combined was 70 million. Of that, Fresh is somewhere around 15 million.






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Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
4927 posts
 Online 

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


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This post was edited on 9/24 at 6:18 pm


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

You should be lobbying your politicians to make a bill that simply requires imported fish to be inspected the same way that domestic fish is


The bill that is to be voted on by Congress is only for the USDA inspections. Further Tariffs are not included.


Anti Dumping Tariffs were imposed in 2003. Lifted in 2008, re imposed back in March. These work in regards to fair market value..Vietnam is a communist country and subsidizes their farmers, so they sell below fair market value. The fair market value is determined through a surrogate country (Indonesia). It was lifted in 2008 because they changed to Bangladesh, who raises a different breed of fish much cheaper. A breed that is not sold in large quantities in the world market. Indonesia raises the same breed as Vietnam..so they swapped back to using them. This showed a higher fair market value, due to larger production in more commercialized farms, and subsequently showed Vietnam fish as being sold below fair market value.

I'm not advocating it as "right". Just telling you how it works and why it is in place. Anti Dumping laws are not only for catfish, they affect thousands of US products and are nothing new. The only thing that changed back in March was the changed the surrogate country to be more accurate in calculation of fair market value, by using the same species of fish as Vietnam.

I never lobbied for tariffs. That lobbying was done back in 2003 when I was in junior high. I only asked for the inspection programs. The recent "lobbying" was asking them to use the same species of fish in the surrogate country to calculate the fair market value, as it was skewed to largely favor the Vietnamese because they lobbied Congress to find a way around the tariffs.






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Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
4927 posts
 Online 

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


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This post was edited on 9/24 at 6:18 pm


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

The next step would be to lobby against the corn lobby.


100% support this. That is a powerful lobby though..the catfish, poultry, and beef industries would have to get together to fight that one. Beef and poultry enjoy the luxury of very little foreign competition, so they simply raise prices as feed goes up without losing market share.

With imported chicken looking like it is about to impact the domestic poultry industry, they may change their tune and get on board to stop ethanol mandates.






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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

.Vietnam is a communist country and subsidizes their farmers, so they sell below fair market value.


You keep saying this as if the US doesn't subsidize the hell out of its own farmers. Is the US a communist nation...or are you just spouting catfish industry talking points?






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

You keep saying this as if the US doesn't subsidize the hell out of its own farmers.


Catfish isn't subsidized.







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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Catfish isn't subsidized.


That doesn't mean the reason Vietnam's is subsidized is because it's communist. You know very well the US subsidizes all sorts of farming activities. So, again I ask you: does that make the US a communist nation?






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

I'm a pro-freedom guy but not necessarily "small government." , We probably benefit from having the government regulate and inspect the food supply.


This is what IB doesn't understand. He blames us for asking for inspections of imports to be held to our standards, among other things.

The problem is the U.S lost the free market a long time ago. For industries like us to survive, we have to ask for help. We can't give up our jobs and livelihood for an ideology..that would be foolish. I agree with his free market ideology and wish it was that way..but it isn't and never will be unless the entire system crashes and has to be restructured.

If you want a true free market, attacks the root of the problem, not the ones trying to survive the problem. The root (which is where the free market was lost) being minimum wage laws, strict regulation on businesses, environmental regulations, mandates such as ethanol, etc. These ruined the free market.

Get rid of that (which in today's world could never be successfully done) and then we wouldn't need "help". Everything would be strictly supply and demand, wages would be determined by the quality of the help, and level of experience needed for a position. People would boycott any producer who put out unsafe products, or was harming the local environment to force them to either change policy or shut the doors.

If this could be done, then the cost of our product would be in line with the imports and they would then be a non factor






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

That doesn't mean the reason Vietnam's is subsidized is because it's communist. You know very well the US subsidizes all sorts of farming activities. So, again I ask you: does that make the US a communist nation?


It's more of a "not every Republican is a conservative, but every conservative is a Republican" type of thing.

Subsidies are a characteristic of a communist nation. They control their businesses, supply, and price levels.

The U.S isn't communist. But that doesn't mean that some things we do aren't a characteristic of communism, or type of socialism. We aren't a socialist country either, but welfare and food stamps are socialism policies.






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Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
4927 posts
 Online 

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


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This post was edited on 9/24 at 6:17 pm


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