Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany | TigerDroppings.com

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blueboy
LSU Fan
between here and there
Member since Apr 2006
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Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Saw this 4 times today, posted on FB by people who don't know each other. It's not even an article, just a meme with a raw number. Why do I get the feeling this number is misleading?



Yeah, Germany. I get it.

LINK








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Blue Velvet
Colorado State Fan
Kenai, Alaska
Member since Nov 2009
15525 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Aren't they mandatory?





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Blastoise
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Pallet Town
Member since Feb 2010
1479 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


So instead of just, you know, googling it or something, you come here to find a different talking point that better fits your worldview?

How about you look into the details from whatever source you choose and make your own conclusion about what you find?






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geauxtigers87
USA Fan
NOLA
Member since Mar 2011
6974 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany








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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
38509 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


look up what Germany paid for that power...it's hilarious





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SlowFlowPro
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Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
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re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

Aren't they mandatory?

they're heavily subsidized and a huge waste of money

LINK

quote:

Indeed, despite the massive investment, solar power accounts for only about 0.3% of Germany’s total energy. This is one of the key reasons why Germans now pay the second-highest price for electricity in the developed world (exceeded only by Denmark, which aims to be the “world wind-energy champion”). Germans pay three times more than their American counterparts.


quote:

Moreover, this sizeable investment does remarkably little to counter global warming. Even with unrealistically generous assumptions, the unimpressive net effect is that solar power reduces Germany’s CO2 emissions by roughly eight million metric tons – or about 1% – for the next 20 years. When the effects are calculated in a standard climate model, the result is a reduction in average temperature of 0.00005oC (one twenty-thousandth of a degree Celsius, or one ten-thousandth of a degree Fahrenheit). To put it another way: by the end of the century, Germany’s $130 billion solar panel subsidies will have postponed temperature increases by 23 hours.


quote:

Using solar, Germany is paying about $1,000 per ton of CO2 reduced. The current CO2 price in Europe is $8. Germany could have cut 131 times as much CO2 for the same price. Instead, the Germans are wasting more than 99 cents of every euro that they plow into solar panels.


quote:

Defenders of Germany’s solar subsidies also claim that they have helped to create “green jobs”. But each job created by green-energy policies costs an average of $175,000 – considerably more than job creation elsewhere in the economy, such as infrastructure or health care. And many “green jobs” are being exported to China, meaning that Europeans subsidize Chinese jobs, with no CO2 reductions.








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Blue Velvet
Colorado State Fan
Kenai, Alaska
Member since Nov 2009
15525 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

they're heavily subsidized and a huge waste of money

Damn. I was there last summer and every country home had them. I knew they had to be subsidized or mandatory. Awful.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


$130B, dude





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Springfield XD
Member since Feb 2013
1782 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


How does the cost of those 22.7 Gw's compare to 22.7 Gw's generated from coal?





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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
294310 posts
 Online 

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


not sure, but the stability alone probably makes up the difference

quote:

In the words of the German Association of Physicists, “solar energy cannot replace any additional power plants.” On short, overcast winter days, Germany’s 1.1 million solar-power systems can generate no electricity at all. The country is then forced to import considerable amounts of electricity from nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic. When the sun failed to shine last winter, one emergency back-up plan powered up an Austrian oil-fired plant to fill the supply gap.






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blueboy
LSU Fan
between here and there
Member since Apr 2006
17565 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

So instead of just, you know, googling it or something, you come here to find a different talking point that better fits your worldview?

I actually did google it. What I'm drawing attention to is the use of a random "statistic' with no support article or even an assertion that it's a good number.






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FightinTigersDammit
Northwestern St. Fan
Farmerville LA
Member since Mar 2006
6567 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


I read today in Weekly Standard that most Euro countries are cutting back subsidies for alternative energy, as well as China and India.





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blueboy
LSU Fan
between here and there
Member since Apr 2006
17565 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

To put it another way: by the end of the century, Germany’s $130 billion solar panel subsidies will have postponed temperature increases by 23 hours.
That is outstanding. That's the kind of quote that can help a man build a memory.






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NukemVol
Tennessee Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jan 2010
1445 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Did they actually reduce CO2 emissions or just replace what they lost from the nuclear plants they shut down post Fukushima?





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wm72
New York/Roma
Member since Mar 2010
4310 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


Wonder how the costs of implementing this will play out long term in comparison to coal?


Understand that replacing Nuclear plants this soon had more to do with averting a meltdown.






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blueboy
LSU Fan
between here and there
Member since Apr 2006
17565 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

Did they actually reduce CO2 emissions or just replace what they lost from the nuclear plants they shut down post Fukushima?

They appear to have had a positive net effect, but one so negligible that it can't possibly justify the cost.






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SLafourche07
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Member since Feb 2008
1323 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany








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Tigah in the ATL
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
24249 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

but one so negligible that it can't possibly justify the cost.
you act like everything people spend money on is justified.

People spend money on things they like. So the Germans like solar power, and they have the money to spend on it.

The Germans pretty much have their shite together, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this, which doesn't harm me in the slightest anyway.






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
2746 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

Wonder how the costs of implementing this will play out long term in comparison to coal?


Understand that replacing Nuclear plants this soon had more to do with averting a meltdown.


Long Term??? Man, what an antiquated idea, planning for the long term. Don't you know that the only thing that matters is how much money YOU have today, regardless of how you got it, and to hell with tomorrow. Who knows, you may be hit by a bus and not see tomorrow, and remember the golden rule of unbridled capitalism, he who has the most shite to leave to their ungrateful heirs the most crap.

Is solar power cost effective today in Germany? No. Is Germany making an investment in the future? YES....and they are quickly emerging as a leader in renewable energy technology. At some point someone in the industry is going to hit an "eureka" moment and it is virtually guaranteed that the anti-science mentality that is so pervasive in the US today will make that moment happen in another country and we will buying the result from them. This is not a game, it is a serious race to the future and the winner is going to be in a position of substantial leverage for many years to come. It is a revolution akin to the industrial revolution and we are so smug in our reliance on the past that we simply are going to be left in the dust if we aren't careful.

So what is wrong with subsidizing technology? How did the internet and the entire computing industry come into being? Subsidized technological R&D in the form of defense spending. How much was NASA'a budget in the early days in 2013 dollars?

And here is the coupe-de-grace.....the US Taxpayer is subsidizing the German (and the rest of the worlds) technological R&D by providing the bulk of that nations (and all others) national security through our own massive defense budget. The money that Germany is spending on developing new technology is coming directly out of public funds that are not going toward their defense because they can rely on US military might to protect their interests.

And finally, the little nugget in the post about the green jobs going to China is severely misleading and probably an outright lie. I will guarantee you that the majority of solar panels sold in Germany are manufactured in Germany because Germans will not buy Chinese made products given a choice (or a product made anywhere other than Germany). Germans will pay twice as much for a product that is less quality but made in Germany than they will for a product that is made elsewhere and is better quality. On top of this the subsidy that Germans receive for installing the equipment (known in the US as a tax break for what its worth, but subsidy sounds more sinister) does not apply to equipment manufactured outside of the EU.....if they buy Chinese panels they don't get the subsidy, period.






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Beer Bryant
Alabama Fan
In a Hidden Bunker
Member since Jan 2012
8792 posts

re: Today's liberal talking point: solar power in Germany


quote:

the anti-science mentality








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