Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam? | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
15729 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

I fail to see how these facts make a compelling case for continuing to spend billions to "defend" South Korea.
Does Emily agree with you?






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vl100butch
LSU Fan
Madison, MS
Member since Sep 2005
24776 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

that to me is going to be facinating, how many of the third worlders that make up the UN today actually realize there is a mandate for the defense of South Korea? and what happens when they find out that there is nothing they can do about it?


Could you clarify this point please, Butch? I don't completely follow you. Thanks.


sure, what I'm thinking is that a lot of the present membership of the UN is unaware of the Security Council Mandate from 1950 for the defense of South Korea that has never been turned off...the United Nations Command is still alive and in the Seoul area...

if the NK's start up round 2, there is going to be shock in a lot of UN offices when the realization hits that a UN mandate exists and even if the NK's paid them off to end said mandate, with the US veto in the Security Council...it's not happening!!!!!






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NHTIGER
LSU Fan
Central New Hampshire
Member since Nov 2003
10208 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

quote:
Tough, mean and militarily superior, they scared the shite out of the VC and NVA more than our guys ever did.



I agree with everything you say, but, the South Vietnamese also fought side by side with our Soldiers in Vietnam.


Well, the ARVN's did so because they were defending their own terrain and their own families.

The ROK government was under no obligation to send troops. Once there, their soldiers and marines fought like they too were defending their own. Very admirable. They never got the credit or recognition they deserved here in the U.S., other than from the Vietnam Vets themselves, who knew only too well what a great ally they were.






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

if the NK's start up round 2, there is going to be shock in a lot of UN offices when the realization hits that a UN mandate exists and even if the NK's paid them off to end said mandate, with the US veto in the Security Council...it's not happening!!!!!


Thanks very much. Good point.

The UN is not good for very much, but, my gut feeling is that the UN would favor armed confrontation of a NK attack on SK.






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

who knew only too well what a great ally they were.


Yes, I agree.






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

You do realize that not only is South Korea an ally but also the USA's 7th largest trading partner, right?


Is your point that the USA should stand strong against malevolent dictators, especially when we can line our pockets by so doing? Because maybe that's why the US Congress abandoned South Vietnam -- we saw no way to line our pockets.

I don't believe you have found the key, because, I know that the US does not act only when it stands to line its own pockets -- the "No Blood for Oil" campaign in 1990 and 2003 taught me that we can expect Democrats to act out of pure altruism.






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Helo
LSU Fan
Orlando
Member since Nov 2004
3660 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

Is your point that the USA should stand strong against malevolent dictators,


Which dictator in South Korea would that be?






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


Don't get cute. It doesn't become you.

Try to contribute something substantive to the discussion without trying to be cute. You ain't cute.

Now then, is anybody willing to explain why it was OK to abandon South Vietnam, but, it would be wrong to abandon South Korea?




This post was edited on 3/29 at 5:52 pm


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Oizers
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
1080 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

I fail to see how these facts make a compelling case for continuing to spend billions to "defend" South Korea.


I plan on buying another Samsung phone when I am eligible for a phone upgrade so this is probably a bad idea.






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

Does Emily agree with you?


I do not discuss US National Grand Strategy with people named Emily. If I wanted to discuss Victorian English Literature, I would welcome people named Emily to that discussion.






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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
13171 posts
 Online 

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

Now then, is anybody willing to explain why it was OK to abandon South Vietnam, but, it would be wrong to abandon South Korea?

America's policy in Vietnam never was to "win" and a lot of American soldiers were dying.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46310 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


How much does our division or so and a couple of air wings in Korea Cost us?

How much does SK contribute?

How much more/less would it cost to station them in the US? Or Guam?

How much would it cost to redeploy if SKorea was attacked?

What benefits do we get from our deployment in Korea?

Seems like you are whinning about some pretty small change for DOD with a possible valubale return.







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Helo
LSU Fan
Orlando
Member since Nov 2004
3660 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

Try to contribute something substantive to the discussion without trying to be cute. You ain't cute.


You didn't answer the question.
If you make a dumb point, expect to be called out on it.

South Korea is one of the most advanced societies on earth, one of the largest economies on earth and is a democracy in place for 60 years.

Despite the fact there has never been an "official" end to the war, the reality is there has been no defacto war since that armistice.

To compare US involvement of S Korea - 2013 to S Vietnam - 1975 is a lazy argument.

But go on asking questions but not answering any yourself.






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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


Here's the comparison.

In 1973, the USA and North Vietnam signed a Peace Accord. Simply put, the terms were that the USA would withdraw from SV. NV would not accelerate their campaign to conquer SV. Under the terms of the agreement, the USA would re-join the fight, if NV accelerated their military campaign in SV.

After the ink was barely dry, NV stepped up their offensive and conquered SV. The US Congress refused to honor the pledge to re-enter the fight, despite the fact that NV violate the agreement.

There were never any domestic political repercussions from this abandonment of SV.

Now, fast forward to today. The USA has a pledge and obligation to defend South Korea against their aggressive northern neighbor.

What's to stop the USA from abandoning South Korea?

If it was "OK" in a domestic political sense to abandon South Vietnam, could those same conditions replicate themselves today, such that, it would be "OK" for today's US politicians to leave South Korea to its fate?



This post was edited on 3/30 at 9:32 am


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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12453 posts

re: Why not treat South Korea like we treated South Vietnam?


quote:

Seems like you are whinning about some pretty small change for DOD with a possible valubale return.


You raise good points for not abandoning South Korea.

However,

The USA had a written obligation to re-join the fight, should North Vietnam violate the terms of the agreement. The NVs did so with great gusto and success. The USA ignored its written obligation.

The written obligation binding the USA to the defense of South Vietnam was not predicated on whether re-joining the fight would be conditioned on whether the USA would economically benefit from re-joining the fight. I suppose that the written commitment was founded upon the altruistic notion that the USA does not abandon its allies. Well, if so, that particular notion was dispelled by subsequent US inaction.

If the price of US defense of South Korea was harm to the US economy, because of the enormous cost, would that change US commitment to SK?

We have seen that the USA did not act in accordance with its promises with regard to South Vietnam. Could the South Korean problem present circumstances whereby the USA would renege on promises to fight for South Korea?



This post was edited on 3/30 at 10:48 am


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