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Moustache 
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:48 pm)
I have no doubt that the U.S. could cut the military spending in almost HALF and easily pay for all healthcare costs for it's citizens.
How is it that other "first world" countries like New Zealand, UK, Canada, and Norway/Nordic countries have single payer systems and we cannot? I don't buy the argument that their healthcare is THAT much worse than ours.
There are people in the military given a blank check. I don't think anyone can say that the defense spending isn't out of control with a straight face.
I still think we need to cut down on other entitlements and welfare bull shite. I don't mind helping somebody when they're down, but at some point you gotta pick yourself up.
healthcare is one entitlement I think all Americans should have. LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness people.
I'm very conservative, but this is one point I cannot agree on with the right.
For instance, if someone is born a type 1 diabetic, they will never be accepted under a private insurance plan unless through an employer. This makes it hard to start your own business or to even change jobs. The people who are so arrogant about how well they're covered will change their tune if something happens to them (employer quits offering, etc.)
Luckily, my wife gets great insurance from her school she teaches at and we're all in great health.(knock on wood) But, I still see this whole insurance charade as fricking pathetic for a civilization as advanced as ours.
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PRK 
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2009
7973 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:51 pm to Moustache)
There is no reason for the United States not to have universal healthcare. It isn't sub-par, and it isn't impossibly expensive. We simply need to decide that it is a priority.
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Srbtiger06 
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2006
17476 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:51 pm to Moustache)
quote:
healthcare is one entitlement I think all Americans should have. LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness people.
Disagree...but to play along...
quote:
There are people in the military given a blank check. I don't think anyone can say that the defense spending isn't out of control with a straight face.
Healthcare spending and costs are within control?
ETA: I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but the costs are ridiculous. If the costs were lower (as they are in most of the other countries you mentioned) then it would become more viable. Shifting money from defense to healthcare doesn't really accomplish anything.
This post was edited on 2/26 at 2:54 pm
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:54 pm to Srbtiger06)
quote:
Healthcare spending and costs are within control?
Look at the defense budget? with a single payer system, the medicare/medicaid crap pretty much gets dissolved. Costs may actually go down due to people getting preventative care with GPs rather than forcing the poors to go to ERs and skip on teh bill.
The money spent on defense is ludicrous. Look at the budget. IF we make healthcare a priority, then we can choose to cut other bull shite to make it happen.
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Zed 
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
5754 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:54 pm to Moustache)
quote:
I still think we need to cut down on other entitlements and welfare bull shite. I don't mind helping somebody when they're down, but at some point you gotta pick yourself up.
healthcare is one entitlement I think all Americans should have.
I agree with both points, and to do the latter, you'd have to do the former. Most of those who want to expand health insurance coverage don't want to cut elsewhere though.
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:55 pm to Srbtiger06)
quote:
but the costs are ridiculous
Why is it more ridiculous here?
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25303 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:57 pm to Moustache)
quote:
healthcare is one entitlement I think all Americans should have. LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness people.
FWIW, that's not at all how Jefferson viewed the right to life when he penned those famous words.
Your right to life, as stated in the 5th Amendment, is a right to be free from government executing you without due process of law.
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:58 pm to Zed)
quote:
Most of those who want to expand health insurance coverage don't want to cut elsewhere though.
Exactly. The ones bitching for healthcare have to realize the government isn't an infinite wallet.
It's like if I want to start putting $500 a month away for my kids' college, then maybe I ought to not go out and have drinks 3-4 times a week. Sacrifices must be made.
If we can limit welfare to a few years (I know that's still ridiculous) and completely stop spending bull shite dollars on bull shite wars and defense, then we can easily afford medicare. Plus, I'd be 100% for an increase in taxes by about 1000 annually if it meant quality healthcare for my family.
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Blue Velvet 
Colorado State Fan
Venice, LA
Member since Nov 2009
12739 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:58 pm to Moustache)
Neither
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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2006
17476 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:59 pm to Moustache)
quote:
Costs may actually go down due to people getting preventative care with GPs rather than forcing the poors to go to ERs and skip on teh bill.
Same predicament as we have now. Demand goes up as the supply stays the same. You're STILL counting on people to get the preventative care and checkups. For the majority, that won't happen.
quote:
The money spent on defense is ludicrous. Look at the budget.
That's the kind of mentality that got us in this mess. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.
quote:
IF we make healthcare a priority, then we can choose to cut other bull shite to make it happen.
We can't choose shite to cut what we pay for what we already have 
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 2:59 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
FWIW, that's not at all how Jefferson viewed the right to life when he penned those famous words.
Your right to life, as stated in the 5th Amendment, is a right to be free from government executing you without due process of law.
True, but by the same token can you pursue happiness? I guess I won't argue healthcare as a right per se, but how can a society (western culture) who has the highest value for human life in history still think this is a bad idea? The insurance system DEFINITELY favors the rich.
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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2006
17476 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:01 pm to Moustache)
quote:
Why is it more ridiculous here?
That's a totally subjective term. To you, healthcare is more important than defense. To others, defense may be more important.
Just look at cost of care here vs. elsewhere. To implement a plan like you're talking about we would HAVE TO get our cost of care down.
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Broketec
LSU Fan
Dumpster Fire
Member since Sep 2006
1064 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:02 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
FWIW, that's not at all how Jefferson viewed the right to life when he penned those famous words.
Your right to life, as stated in the 5th Amendment, is a right to be free from government executing you without due process of law.
That doesn't contribute a thing to this topic.
It makes it seem as if you think healthcare is for no one but those who go out and get it themselves...from companies who's job is to deny you so they can make money...
You were lucky enough not to be born with a condition that will follow you for your entire life. So I'd hardly expect you to think that we, as a country, dont have a responsibility to make sure what is provided to one group of "lucky" citizens is also provided to the unlucky group.
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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2006
17476 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:02 pm to Moustache)
quote:
The insurance system DEFINITELY favors the rich.
What system doesn't? The rich have the resources.
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:04 pm to Srbtiger06)
quote:
You're STILL counting on people to get the preventative care and checkups. For the majority, that won't happen.
it WILL cut down on people taking their kids to the ER with a sore throat. I guarantee that.
quote:
That's the kind of mentality that got us in this mess. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.
I'm not saying to spend just for the sake of spending. Out of all the entitlements and subsidy bull shite this government does, healthcare for its citizens should be one of the prominent ones. There's so much bull shite in farming subsidies, oil subsidies, education subsidies, welfare, DEFENSE spending. Hell, some officers in the military fricking write check for shite they DONT need. R politicians send the military shite they don't request or need. D politicians are still opening up new wars and not ending the ones they promised will end. How people can be okay with their tax dollars going to one thing instead of their health care is beyond me.
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:06 pm to Srbtiger06)
quote:
To others, defense may be more important.
I'm not saying leave the country defenseless. But we already have more weapons than any other country and more nuclear weapons than the next 16 countries combined. I think we're OKAY in the fricking defense department.
quote:
Just look at cost of care here vs. elsewhere. To implement a plan like you're talking about we would HAVE TO get our cost of care down.
That's why we need to mimic Canada, UK, Norway, New Zealand, etc to see what they're doing to keep the cost down. The healthcare there is pretty fricking good.
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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2006
17476 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:07 pm to Moustache)
quote:
it WILL cut down on people taking their kids to the ER with a sore throat. I guarantee that.
Sure but that's only one aspect of it. People won't use the system to maintain a healthy lifestyle, they'll use it to cure ailments. Our biggest problem now, IMO, is that people aren't doing anything to maintain health.
quote:
That's why we need to mimic Canada, UK, Norway, New Zealand, etc to see what they're doing to keep the cost down. The healthcare there is pretty fricking good.
Which was my previous point. THOSE countries have citizens that take care of themselves. The majority of our population doesn't give a shite. They'll see a doctor when a problem arises.
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Out of all the entitlements and subsidy bull shite this government does, healthcare for its citizens should be one of the prominent ones.
Eh...
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There's so much bull shite in farming subsidies, oil subsidies, education subsidies, welfare, DEFENSE spending.
Agreed.
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Hell, some officers in the military fricking write check for shite they DONT need.
This won't happen in healthcare?
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How people can be okay with their tax dollars going to one thing instead of their health care is beyond me.
Because they don't like their tax dollars being taken in the first place?
This post was edited on 2/26 at 3:09 pm
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:09 pm to Srbtiger06)
quote:
What system doesn't? The rich have the resources.
True. And in this case the rich can still buy private insurance on top of the government provided just like in the UK.
But it's a fricking travesty we still have this "I got mine mentality" when it comes to human life. I'm not talking about sharing money. Everybody has EQUAL opportunity to pursue that. But some people are born with conditions to follow them their whole life. You can't sit there and tell me that it's a great country we live in that tells those people to go frick themselves and that they should've been born rich. WE, as a country have the resources to make this happen. WE just choose to spend it on the stupidest shite.
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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14013 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:10 pm to Srbtiger06)
quote:
Because they don't like their tax dollars being taken in the first place?
True. But I bet those people who ever have a true medical problem that forces them to bankruptcy will change their tune and will gladly pay more taxes to ensure their healthcare.
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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2006
17476 posts
| re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military (Posted on 2/26/13 at 3:12 pm to Moustache)
quote:
But some people are born with conditions to follow them their whole life.
Which sucks, but that's a small piece of the pie. A full-blown universal system would help those AND open up more avenues of abuse.
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