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CajunAngele 
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| CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:27 am)
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CIA Director Nominee: Waterboarding Is “Reprehensible,” “Should Have Been Banned” … Defends Assassinating American Citizens
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Lsut81
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:31 am to CajunAngele)
quote:
CIA Director Nominee: Waterboarding Is “Reprehensible,” “Should Have Been Banned” … Defends Assassinating American Citizens
So non-citizens have more rights in his eyes than citizens 
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Bayou Sam
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:38 am to Lsut81)
I disagree with the administration's legal rational (I posted something on this very board myself a long time ago about this), but there is no moral equivalence here.
Torture is a violation of international law, a violation of our principles, and it dishonors America.
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Lsut81
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:39 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
Torture is a violation of international law, a violation of our principles, and it dishonors America.
And killing an American citizen without be convicted of a crime doesn't 
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CajunAngele
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Member since Oct 2012
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:44 am to Lsut81)
quote:
And killing an American citizen without be convicted of a crime doesn't
This.
I also, don't get the logic of how torture is a crime and not murder.
Enhanced interrogation techniques are not torture. The jury is still out.
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Bayou Sam
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:48 am to Lsut81)
No, killing an enemy on the battlefield is not a violation of anything. Nor is it dishonorable.
The problem with the administration's position is that they redefine due process in a way that should alarm and be resisted by everyone, because it violates the separation of powers. It's like a police dept giving itself a warrant to search your house.
On the other hand, if the administration had some sort of court warrant to kill an American overseas, they could do it without any legal hiccup. But no warrant could whitewash torture.
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Bayou Sam
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 8:49 am to CajunAngele)
Painting this as torture vs killing just demonstrates a failure to understand the legal points at issue.
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CajunAngele
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Member since Oct 2012
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:07 am to Bayou Sam)
There is no painting anything. Enhanced interrogation techniques are legally not defined as torture at this facet. Only politically by using the term, torture.
Can you affirm that the new political dem talking point is that 'torture' is BAD but 'murder' is okay?
This post was edited on 2/8 at 9:09 am
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Bayou Sam
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:10 am to CajunAngele)
Your logic is pitiful. You really don't even understand why these drone strikes are a problem (hint: it's not because people are killed).
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CajunAngele
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Member since Oct 2012
5211 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:14 am to Bayou Sam)
Why don't you define exactly why drone strikes are a problem and how it is not a problem people are killed. Then we can discuss logic being pitiful.
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Roaad
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Member since Aug 2006
50489 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:14 am to CajunAngele)
Denying US citizens their right to due process is cool with Bayou Sam, as long as it is a Democrat that gets to make the call.
True story.
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Lsut81
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Member since Jun 2005
54952 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:15 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
No, killing an enemy on the battlefield is not a violation of anything
This isn't about killing them on a battlefield, its about killing them because they may be "Associated" with a terrorist organization...
If they are on the battlefield, directly firing against American troops, then they are fair game.
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Bayou Sam
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:17 am to CajunAngele)
Look, I realize you are dumb. That's fine.
I'll spell it out for you. Torture is never legitimate. Murder is oftentimes legitimate...war, self-defense, capital punishment, etc. The question here is the legitimacy of the murder.
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Bayou Sam
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:20 am to Lsut81)
This is far too simple. Was Osama Bin Laden "on the battlefield"? The distinction is "at war" and "at peace," which is a pretty straightforward legal distinction. You don't have to be actually shooting to be at war.
An analogy might be some american citizen wearing a nazi uniform. Is that enough evidence to deprive them of due process? I say no because I think we should err on the side of law and not the deciding power of the executive, but the situation is not cut and dry.
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ReauxlTide222 
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2010
5246 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:31 am to CajunAngele)
Wait...so can we waterboard our own citizens? If we can kill them without due process surely we can waterboard them too right? Or is that just way too evil?
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Lsut81
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2005
54952 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:35 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
This is far too simple. Was Osama Bin Laden "on the battlefield"? The distinction is "at war" and "at peace," which is a pretty straightforward legal distinction. You don't have to be actually shooting to be at war.
Really? I didn't realize that Bin Laden was a US Citizen
frick me where I sit
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Brodeur
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Member since Feb 2012
1474 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:36 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
I disagree with the administration's legal rational (I posted something on this very board myself a long time ago about this), but there is no moral equivalence here. Torture is a violation of international law, a violation of our principles, and it dishonors America.
So it's better to follow "international law" than to follow our own laws. Got it.
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CITWTT
LSU Fan
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
25242 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:45 am to Bayou Sam)
So based upon a jury of ONE you would not object to your death. The new rules only need one sentence to be changed by a Presidential finding to make your arse toast INSIDE the US.
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Tiguar 
South Alabama Fan
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| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:46 am to ReauxlTide222)
I don't think anyone is saying this.
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10511 posts
| re: CIA Director Nom: Waterboarding “Reprehensible” Defends Assassinating Americans (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:51 am to Lsut81)
quote:
This isn't about killing them on a battlefield, its about killing them because they may be "Associated" with a terrorist organization...
Is the president not authorized, under the 2001 AUMF, to use military force against Al-Qaida--without respect for whether or not they're on a conventinal "battlefield"?
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