DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

Just to play Devil's advocate. Let's say the IRS suspects you on tax evasion, money laundering and some other stuff. They come to your home and seize your tax records, then go through them. How is this any different?


Tax records are papers, and isn't inventory that someone perhaps makes their living with, and isn't a second amendment right. It's not the same.







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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
10658 posts
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re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

He's an FFL dealer.



Do FFL dealers consent to this sort of thing as a condition of the license?






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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5350 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

For how long?


A reasonable amount of time.

This would most likely be determined by a Judge.

If the judge feels as if the agency is screwing around they will be forced to act.

quote:

How that affects the man's livelihood? Who cares?



The court should and does care.

quote:

I don't like the fact of taking his weapons,


Replace weapons/ with evidence.

If the crime is directly related to the weapons they are evidence.

quote:

I don't like the fact of taking his weapons, if for no other reason than it is an open door policy to do that to anyone, hold their guns for an indefinite time and claim its under investigation.


They can't hold them for an indefinite amount of time.

Look I disagree with a ton of the federal power grab, but this isn't one of them. This isn't something new this has been going on forever in every level of investigation from the local to the federal level. This one just looks sexy because of the amount of weapons taken.






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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5350 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

Tax records are papers, and isn't inventory that someone perhaps makes their living with, and isn't a second amendment right. It's not the same.



It is the exact same thing.

He can still go and purchase a weapon and nobody is telling him he can't own one now.

The IRS will also seize computers in the business that they make a living with.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64946 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

A reasonable amount of time.


You mean like the Feds did with Gibson Guitars






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

quote:
For how long?


A reasonable amount of time.

This would most likely be determined by a Judge.

If the judge feels as if the agency is screwing around they will be forced to act.


quote:

The court should and does care.


So, this is all contingent upon a judge and court. Comforting.








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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5350 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

So, this is all contingent upon a judge and court. Comforting.




Yep, I hate to break it to you, but this is nothing new.

All laws at the end of the day are contingent upon a judge and court.






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:


Yep, I hate to break it to you, but this is nothing new.

All laws at the end of the day are contingent upon


I'm not ignorant of that Elcid. I just don't happen to like the concept in principle, and don't like my rights being in the hands of unelected rulers. I think there should be a set time limit given for an investigation to take place in these types of things, not some ambiguous trust in man to do the right thing. And the bigger this government gets the less faith most will have in these people to "do the right thing"








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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5350 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

And the bigger this government gets the less faith most will have in these people to "do the right thing"



quote:

I think there should be a set time limit given for an investigation to take place in these types of things, not some ambiguous trust in man to do the right thing.


That can get sticky. Nothing is that cut and dry.
However I believe in the event it has been proven the gov acted poorly the path to making the victim whole again should be easier. In other words, that will make is less likely for the gov to take bigger chances on shady cases.






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

I think there should be a set time limit given for an investigation to take place in these types of things, not some ambiguous trust in man to do the right thing. That can get sticky. Nothing is that cut and dry. However I believe in the event it has been proven the gov acted poorly the path to making the victim whole again should be easier. In other words, that will make is less likely for the gov to take bigger chances on shady cases.



It's all about who thinks what is unreasonable or reasonable, and I really don't like it being in the hands of a people who all have agendas, and those who are in positions of power today especially usually gravitate to the bigger and more powerful government agenda.






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CajunAngele
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
11168 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

The person raided is a gun collector and legal gun dealer...

He imports old World War II type firearms form South American countries and resells them to collectors.

If they can raid his house and take his legal weapons than they can come to yours with the same pretense and say the samethings.


Well said.






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LSUgusto
Member since May 2005
16379 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

Patriot. Act.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64946 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

Well said.


As I pointed out, they did the same thing with Gibson Guitars, essentially shutting them down...

They seized all of their imported wood from India over whether it was thick enough

Gibson settled instead of fighting because it would have cost them 10 times what they lost in wood/time just to fight the accusations in court






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:


As I pointed out, they did the same thing with Gibson Guitars, essentially shutting them down...

They seized all of their imported wood from India over whether it was thick enough

Gibson settled instead of fighting because it would have cost them 10 times what they lost in wood/time just to fight the accusations in court


Bob Taylor, Leo Fender and Paul Reed Smith approve.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64946 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

Bob Taylor, Leo Fender and Paul Reed Smith approve.



I'm def not a legal expert, but all cases like this should require that the govt has to pay ALL legal bills and losses in a court case like this... I know it happens in some, but I don't know what the standards are

Would give people more of a will to standup and fight.. Truly get their day in court.






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

I'm def not a legal expert, but all cases like this should require that the govt has to pay ALL legal bills and losses in a court case like this... I know it happens in some, but I don't know what the standards are

Would give people more of a will to standup and fight.. Truly get their day in court.


The problem as I see it is how does one have the means to go to court or take it to a higher court if the court has taken your means to make a living to pay for it away for investigative purposes?

Honestly, this is why character IS the chief cornerstone upon which all of our liberty and freedoms rest.

quote:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other









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braindeadboxer
LSU Fan
Utopia
Member since Nov 2011
5015 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


News like this makes me want to go out and shoot the nearest cop. I despise everything about the police, and I especially despise their leadership.





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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64946 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


quote:

News like this makes me want to go out and shoot the nearest cop.






I'm def not a fan of MOST law enforcement, even though I grew up in a law enforcement family and have been surrounded by them my entire life, but this is going a little far.






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braindeadboxer
LSU Fan
Utopia
Member since Nov 2011
5015 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


Didn't say I was, I'm just trying to rile up the resident cop defenders on the board. Rest easy





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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41277 posts

re: DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed


Kings and queens must surely swing, but I'm not so sure I'd place blame on law enforcement. There are bad apples for sure, and the further society sinks into the principled vacuum, the more their numbers and percentages will inevitably grow, but there are still some very honorable and decent police officers. They aren't the problem, and want to really make a difference in cleaning up real crime. It's that the whole system today is lawyered to death. Not that lawyers don't belong in the judicial system, obviously, but that lawyers without scruples or principles will use it to their own advantage or the advancement of their agendas by twisting it to their own advantage. Such is it with the constitution that lawyers, now judges, politicians, and people within all facets of law enforcement, both federal and state, use to manipulate by ignoring original intent and throwing in their own agendas and the living document arguments, caring little for what was the point as how they can manipulate it for their own gain. Human filth sir, and that is what's at the heart of all corruption.







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