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Bigger need: NT or OLB?
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:09 am
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:09 am
These are typically the two most important positions on a successful 3-4.
The NT is giant guy that anchors the entire line. he takes on double teams, holds the spot in order to allow the DEs and (much more so) LBs to make plays. A lot of people feel that it is the most important spot on the entire 3-4 Defense, and they tend to not get any recognition because they do not accumulate much in the way of stats.
Our need at this position depends on what you think Hicks and Bunkley's roles are. Can either play NT? Bunk has done it before, but he is slightly undersized for the position...you want your NT to be a strong, HUGE guy, think 330-350 pounds.
OLB...destroy QB. Drop back into coverage. A guy that can do both is ideal in the way a lot of teams play 3-4 now. A guy that is a lot of the time a converted (but undersized) 4-3 DE.
Obviously, pass rush is one of our biggest areas of concern going into the draft. Our need here depends on what you think of Martez Wilson and Junior Galette's ability.
Coincidentally, there are a lot of guys available in this draft at both positions that should be available when we pick.
The NT is giant guy that anchors the entire line. he takes on double teams, holds the spot in order to allow the DEs and (much more so) LBs to make plays. A lot of people feel that it is the most important spot on the entire 3-4 Defense, and they tend to not get any recognition because they do not accumulate much in the way of stats.
Our need at this position depends on what you think Hicks and Bunkley's roles are. Can either play NT? Bunk has done it before, but he is slightly undersized for the position...you want your NT to be a strong, HUGE guy, think 330-350 pounds.
OLB...destroy QB. Drop back into coverage. A guy that can do both is ideal in the way a lot of teams play 3-4 now. A guy that is a lot of the time a converted (but undersized) 4-3 DE.
Obviously, pass rush is one of our biggest areas of concern going into the draft. Our need here depends on what you think of Martez Wilson and Junior Galette's ability.
Coincidentally, there are a lot of guys available in this draft at both positions that should be available when we pick.
8
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:11 am to Fun Bunch
NT
I will just copy and paste what I just typed on the other OLB thread.
The misconception is that the rush OLB is the most important position for a 3-4. This isn't true. NT is THE critical position, because he dictates the LOS and creates all the opportunities for the LB's.
As it stands, we don't have this guy. Maybe there's someone on our roster that fits this, but highly doubtful.
Here's how I see it. We target Casey Hampton and draft a groomer for the position. Hampton is old and not the same player, but he's good enough to make it work. Tez and Juniah I think will actually thrive in a 3-4, so I'm not worried about OLB. I see Jordan and Hicks working well at DE. The other issues are at our 2nd ILB and corners. Remember, most 3-4 schemes are actually zones, and we all know our CB's haven't done well in those coverages.
I list our priorities as follows:
NT
CB
ILB
S
OLB
So who has a list of NT free agents and draft prospects?
I will just copy and paste what I just typed on the other OLB thread.
The misconception is that the rush OLB is the most important position for a 3-4. This isn't true. NT is THE critical position, because he dictates the LOS and creates all the opportunities for the LB's.
As it stands, we don't have this guy. Maybe there's someone on our roster that fits this, but highly doubtful.
Here's how I see it. We target Casey Hampton and draft a groomer for the position. Hampton is old and not the same player, but he's good enough to make it work. Tez and Juniah I think will actually thrive in a 3-4, so I'm not worried about OLB. I see Jordan and Hicks working well at DE. The other issues are at our 2nd ILB and corners. Remember, most 3-4 schemes are actually zones, and we all know our CB's haven't done well in those coverages.
I list our priorities as follows:
NT
CB
ILB
S
OLB
So who has a list of NT free agents and draft prospects?
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:11 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
but he is slightly undersized for the position...you want your NT to be a strong, HUGE guy, think 330-350 pounds.
325 is pretty standard. Bunkley would be slightly undersized but could probably put on 10 pounds for the transition. Hicks is without a doubt big enough
how many players weight 350 at NT?
This post was edited on 1/25/13 at 11:14 am
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:12 am to Fun Bunch
AHicks is big enough to play NT. Quick off the ball and good motor. I see the DL as CJ - DE, AH - NT and BH - DE.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:13 am to Fun Bunch
Fletcher Mackel has it right for once.
Trade up for Star Lotulelei. Would be a total game changer in the Haloti Ngata mold.
Trade up for Star Lotulelei. Would be a total game changer in the Haloti Ngata mold.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:13 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
325 is pretty standard.
how many players weight 350 at NT?
You might be right. I just looked up some players and there aren't that many that are that big. But Bunkley is 306.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:14 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Trade up for Star Lotulelei. Would be a total game changer in the Haloti Ngata mold.
I don't know the college crop this year, but if this is the case then I am in total agreement here.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:15 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
But Bunkley is 306.
and he lost weight last offseason.
San Diego's NT is 320lbs, Bunkley could be right around there for the season. Hicks is listed at 325
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:17 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Fletcher Mackel has it right for once.
Trade up for Star Lotulelei. Would be a total game changer in the Haloti Ngata mold.
Would have to give up WAY too much. Most of this draft and part of next years.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:19 am to Fun Bunch
ratliff is considered a top 3-4 NT??? and he is only 303
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:19 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
I don't know the college crop this year, but if this is the case then I am in total agreement here.
There are a lot of 3-4NTs in this draft. None were as dominant at Star, but you can still get one with a lot of potential without giving up everything.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:20 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
ratliff is considered a top 3-4 NT??? and he is only 303
Very much the exception to the rule.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:20 am to Fun Bunch
OLB for me, and not even close.
I like Bunkley for NT, he was an animal in Denver playing nose for their 3-4 scheme. I also love Hicks here. Hicks is a massive body, capable of blowing up a center, while also being agile for his size. Nose tackles are also much cheaper and easier to find than a pass rusher, or good 3-4 OLB.
OLB is the biggest need not only on the defense, but also on the entire team. I am fine with Lofton and ILB. He is a stocky guy for his height and you need a good size ILB. VIlma could possibly be the other ILB, but he is very undersized. I love the idea of Martez Wilson at OLB based on potential alone. He is freakishly athletic, and definitely has the look and skill set of a OLB in a 3-4 scheme. I believe the 4-3 was not a good fit for him, especially at end. A move for him to OLB, and playing with more space could really help him show some of his true potential. Another guy that some may laugh at the thought of is Harper, who in many formations is a rover and basically playing like an OLB. His best attribute is playing the run, and in 2011 he led the league in sacks at SS, due to WIlliams utilizing him as a rusher often. But, the team needs a true pass-rusher, and someone who can come in and make a immediate impact. Now that we've switched to a 3-4, Mingo is looking more and more like the kind of guy we need. The Saints desperately need a game changer, and in a 3-4 those guys are are almost always your OLB/Pass rusher.
I like Bunkley for NT, he was an animal in Denver playing nose for their 3-4 scheme. I also love Hicks here. Hicks is a massive body, capable of blowing up a center, while also being agile for his size. Nose tackles are also much cheaper and easier to find than a pass rusher, or good 3-4 OLB.
OLB is the biggest need not only on the defense, but also on the entire team. I am fine with Lofton and ILB. He is a stocky guy for his height and you need a good size ILB. VIlma could possibly be the other ILB, but he is very undersized. I love the idea of Martez Wilson at OLB based on potential alone. He is freakishly athletic, and definitely has the look and skill set of a OLB in a 3-4 scheme. I believe the 4-3 was not a good fit for him, especially at end. A move for him to OLB, and playing with more space could really help him show some of his true potential. Another guy that some may laugh at the thought of is Harper, who in many formations is a rover and basically playing like an OLB. His best attribute is playing the run, and in 2011 he led the league in sacks at SS, due to WIlliams utilizing him as a rusher often. But, the team needs a true pass-rusher, and someone who can come in and make a immediate impact. Now that we've switched to a 3-4, Mingo is looking more and more like the kind of guy we need. The Saints desperately need a game changer, and in a 3-4 those guys are are almost always your OLB/Pass rusher.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:22 am to TigerBait1127
Jesse Williams from Bama or John Jenkins UGA would be the perfect fit. You need a "Vince Wilfork" type NT to take pressure off MLB.
I think it's way easier to find a pass rushing OLB than a 3-4 NT.
I think it's way easier to find a pass rushing OLB than a 3-4 NT.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:22 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Very much the exception to the rule.
no reason to think bunkley couldn't be
This post was edited on 1/25/13 at 11:24 am
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:24 am to TigerBait1127
Bunkley as a NT in Denver:
not only has he played NT in the 3-4 before, he was the best in the NFL at it
quote:
The Broncos made Bunkley their 3-4 nose tackle at the beginning of the season and he instantly thrived. The Florida State product had three stops – plays he ended alone -- in Denver’s season-opener against the Raiders and never quit stuffing the run. Bunkley for the year had 32 stops in 485 snaps. No other defensive tackle with fewer than 500 snaps had as many as 23. Bunkley's penchant for ending plays by himself earned him a plus-28.4 grade in the ground game and the No. 1 overall ranking among defensive tackles against the run.
not only has he played NT in the 3-4 before, he was the best in the NFL at it
This post was edited on 1/25/13 at 11:25 am
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:27 am to Fun Bunch
I'm not really sure here actually. I think the answer is sort of the same for both. We have guys we think can fit there, but they're not really that proven.
OLB - you can probably switch out Galette/Wilson here. Although getting a Mingo or Jones there would be most ideal.
NT - you can probably use both Bunkley as Hicks there. Bunkley is probably the most proven at NT considering where he played for Denver, but I don't recall his age or contract status.
If you had to choose one to upgrade, for me it would be OLB. I don't completely trust Wilson:Galette there full time and would really want a a known gamechanger most likely from the draft. I think Bunkley and Hicks can get the job done switching out
OLB - you can probably switch out Galette/Wilson here. Although getting a Mingo or Jones there would be most ideal.
NT - you can probably use both Bunkley as Hicks there. Bunkley is probably the most proven at NT considering where he played for Denver, but I don't recall his age or contract status.
If you had to choose one to upgrade, for me it would be OLB. I don't completely trust Wilson:Galette there full time and would really want a a known gamechanger most likely from the draft. I think Bunkley and Hicks can get the job done switching out
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:28 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
Bunkley as a NT in Denver:
quote:
The Broncos made Bunkley their 3-4 nose tackle at the beginning of the season and he instantly thrived. The Florida State product had three stops – plays he ended alone -- in Denver’s season-opener against the Raiders and never quit stuffing the run. Bunkley for the year had 32 stops in 485 snaps. No other defensive tackle with fewer than 500 snaps had as many as 23. Bunkley's penchant for ending plays by himself earned him a plus-28.4 grade in the ground game and the No. 1 overall ranking among defensive tackles against the run.
not only has he played NT in the 3-4 before, he was the best in the NFL at it
I am well aware. In fact I posted a similar blurb in another thread earlier today.
I am just sparking discussion here. And TYPICALLY, a NT is a lot bigger.
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:29 am to Fun Bunch
I think that one of the DE positions maybe the biggest need.
Bunkley - NT
Jordan - DE
??? - DE
Gallette - OLB
Wilson - OLB
sure we need a little more depth but i don't think that would be that bad
Bunkley - NT
Jordan - DE
??? - DE
Gallette - OLB
Wilson - OLB
sure we need a little more depth but i don't think that would be that bad
This post was edited on 1/25/13 at 11:31 am
Posted on 1/25/13 at 11:31 am to PokerChamp21
quote:
I think that one of the DE positions maybe the biggest need.
Uh...no.
Hicks and Jordan would have that on lock.
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