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ironsides 
LSU Fan
new york, ny
Member since May 2006
4408 posts
| Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 6:53 am)
So as a nation we've been discussing gun control in a pretty heated debate the last few weeks. I think two of the main assumptions on the ban guns side are:
1) we have police that protect our lives and property.
2) we have a military that can protect us from invasion.
I then look at another issue that is important to me: the economy flat out sucks and our current government is incapable through lack of knowledge, capability, and leadership to do anything meaningful to help the economy. This means that government revenues (which have historically been ~20% of GDP) must go down or taxes must go up to pay for the things we need.
So then that brings into question "what do we really need and what can we afford?"
I think what we will end up with is less police and a smaller military - has to happen unless we go full socialist in which case you're still going to have a revenue / spending issue.
In a world with less police and less military would we be as safe and would those of you that don't have guns consider learning how to use one and purchasing one?
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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26715 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 6:59 am to ironsides)
quote:
we have police that protect our lives and property.
if they are there to protect us they can protect and do protect us. But the police can only do so much there are some situations that are unavoidable
quote:
we have a military that can protect us from invasion.
yes they can we have the strongest military in the world and no country out there right now has a chance to stand toe to toe with us. The biggest threat to the safety of our country is terrorism and crime.
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ironsides
LSU Fan
new york, ny
Member since May 2006
4408 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 7:11 am to catholictigerfan)
Right - but like I live in NYC right now and have since the 80's.
Right now everyone is safe. We also have more than 2x the cops we used to have. What if they needed to downsize? I think this place would turn back into the shithole it used to be.
Same thing with the military - do we really think its sustainable?
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HempHead 
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 7:33 am to ironsides)
quote:
I think this place would turn back into the shithole it used to be.
National trends in overall violent crime would suggest otherwise.
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Chimlim
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jul 2005
10356 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 7:44 am to ironsides)
If someone breaks into my house, seconds matter. I can't just sit there and wait 5-10 minutes for police to show up
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Radiojones
LSU Fan
Dutchtown, LA
Member since Feb 2007
4218 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 7:48 am to ironsides)
Think about this...a category 1 hurricane hit New York and 24 hours later there were people eating out of dumpsters. If a big natural disaster ever happens there (say a cat 3 or bigger hurricane) that place will turn into a scene from Escape From New York. You need to make certain that you have a way to protect yourself and feed your family.
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SimonSlick 
USA Fan
Member since Oct 2007
3502 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 8:08 am to Chimlim)
quote:
I can't just sit there and wait 5-10 minutes for police to show up
About 25-30 mins to where I live. I'm on my own if anything happens
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TigerTattle
LSU Fan
Out of Town
Member since Sep 2007
3945 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 8:20 am to ironsides)
quote:
Right now everyone is safe.
Everyone?
quote:
in the Kelly/Bloomberg era (2002 and after) over half the officers -- 51 percent -- had observed the intentional misclassification of serious crimes as petty offenses and other unethical practices, typically multiple times. Officers also reported that since 2002 they had experienced unusually strong pressures from supervisors to downgrade crimes and keep crime numbers low.
The consequences of downgrading or not reporting crimes can be severe. For example, in 2010 recently retired Detective Harold Hernandez revealed to Village Voice reporter Graham Rayman that a series of sexual assault-robberies in Washington Heights had been downgraded from serious felonies to misdemeanors. As a result, the NYPD missed the crime pattern and allowed a sexual predator to remain at large for at least two months and to commit six more rapes.
quote:
There is now a clear message emanating from the top commanders at police headquarters: make many stop and frisks, write many summonses, make many arrests for petty offenses, and downgrade serious crimes. In other words, the NYPD seeks to keep the serious crime numbers low while showing lots of officer activity. The NYPD's 50,000 marijuana arrests, 600,000 summonses, and nearly 700,000 stop and frisks do little or nothing to make the city safer.
LINK
This article is from the Huffington Post. Lots of other articles are out there saying the same thing.
I'll keep my best means of self-defense, thanks, and it's not a baseball bat or equivalent.
eta: Re your question: I don't know that fewer police officers would exacerbate the crime problem there, but I'm guessing it would, especially if they keep downgrading felonies to misdemeanors.
This post was edited on 1/20 at 8:24 am
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roscoe mike
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
516 posts
 Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 9:26 am to ironsides)
quote:
So then that brings into question "what do we really need and what can we afford?"
We need the 50 million or so taxpayers, consumer spenders, soldiers, policeman, teachers, etc., etc., that we erased while still in their mother's wombs.
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chalmetteowl
USA Fan
Da Parish
Member since Jan 2008
9406 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 9:43 am to roscoe mike)
quote:
We need the 50 million or so taxpayers, consumer spenders, soldiers, policeman, teachers, etc., etc., that we erased while still in their mother's wombs.
we should be glad we erased 50 million in the womb... most of those would be the underclass we support indirectly
i think NYC is safer not because of police, but because it's a richer city that's priced out the riffraff. i mean boiler rooms go for $900 a month there
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roscoe mike
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
516 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 10:54 am to chalmetteowl)
quote:
we should be glad we erased 50 million in the womb... most of those would be the underclass we support indirectly
IDK how we can really be sure about that. Historically, the national unemployment rate is between 5-10%. Even counting the unemployed not on the rolls, it's still not more than 15%. That would be at least 40 million as productive members of society.
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chalmetteowl
USA Fan
Da Parish
Member since Jan 2008
9406 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 10:57 am to roscoe mike)
you're trying to assume abortions happen equally across the whole population...
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roscoe mike
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
516 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 11:16 am to chalmetteowl)
U.S. Total Females, Age 15-44 (According to 2010 U.S. Census)
Whites: 58.3% (36,399,198)
Blacks: 14.2% (8,897,793)
Hispanic or Latino: 19.0% (11,845,024)
Other: 8.5% (5,303,843)
U.S. Women Who Obtained Abortions in 2008 (According to Center of Disease Control)
White: 52.4%
Black: 40.2%
Other: 7.4%
LINK
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chalmetteowl
USA Fan
Da Parish
Member since Jan 2008
9406 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 1:19 pm to roscoe mike)
thanks for proving my point
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4LSU2
LSU Fan
Madisonville
Member since Dec 2009
14434 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 2:13 pm to Chimlim)
quote:
If someone breaks into my house, seconds matter. I can't just sit there and wait 5-10 minutes for police to show up
Exactly.
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roscoe mike
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
516 posts
Online
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:33 pm to chalmetteowl)
nevermind
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theenemy 
Arkansas Fan
Member since Oct 2006
3126 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:51 pm to TigerTattle)
Also a big reason for the decrease in the homicide rate in the last 40 years was not related to police protection, but was a result in the advancement of medical treatment.
EMT workers and ERs have been much more successful in treating victims.
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mograyback 
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:54 pm to ironsides)
quote:
Assumptions regarding the future of the country
Huxleys Brave New World... that is the future. (It's pretty much the now).
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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
9341 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 4:47 pm to mograyback)
quote:
Huxleys Brave New World... that is the future. (It's pretty much the now).
Wow...haven't thought about that book in years. I even have a copy somewhere. 
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Tigah in the ATL
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
20708 posts
| re: Assumptions regarding the future of the country (Posted on 1/20/13 at 5:10 pm to ironsides)
quote:
So as a nation we've been discussing gun control in a pretty heated debate the last few weeks
only because it's the latest shiny nickel.
Healthcare...
Election fraud...
Benghazi...
We'll move on to a new crisis soon.
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