Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal? | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
12740 posts
 Online 

Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


Disclaimer: This is NOT a religious thread or a thread intended to discuss the legitimacy of homosexuality in a Biblical sense. I am strictly asking about whether the First Amendment protections of religious freedom will apply to those Christian groups that declare homosexuality to be sin and thus do not recognize gay marriage etc.

How will the govermnent treat these groups? Will they lose access to public institutions or settings? Will they lose their tax exempt status? Will they be seen as a cultural pariah? Will they be considered guilty of "hate speech"?

Is there a way that groups that oppose homosexuatity on religious grounds will be able to be accepted in the New America, or will this be the wedge issue that finally delegitimizes religion in the public square (or alters it forever)?







Back to top
Share:
DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8617 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


Yes. I think within the next few years churches will lose 501(c) status if they do not allow for gay marriage in their respective churches.

Many churches will simply stop being tax exempt...and most of those will not miss a beat, IMO, from a donation standpoint.

Most Christians believe that giving money (and time) is mandated in the Bible...the tax deductibility of the monetary donation is simply an extra perk.






Back to top
GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
11367 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


Not sure what you mean. If you mean, will they be forced to do them, I would say no. If you mean looked down upon, then yes...probably. Just as any group in 2012 would be looked down upon if they opposed interracial marriage. If it becomes culturally "normal" opposition will put one on the outside looking in.

quote:


Is there a way that groups that oppose homosexuatity on religious grounds will be able to be accepted in the New America, or will this be the wedge issue that finally delegitimizes religion in the public square (or alters it forever)?


In terms of public perception, I don't think there will be a way to oppose something like that and fall back on the "it's my religion" as the excuse. You can see it happening already.






Back to top
AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
12740 posts
 Online 

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


It is an interesting issue in regard to religious freedom in America from a Constitutional sense. Secluarists say that religious freedom is granted because people can "worship" how they choose. Of course, "worship" is defined as gathering in a building and reading a text, praying, and perhaps singing a few songs. But, the Christian version of "worship" involves one's whole life. This is at the root of the HHS mandate and Hobby Lobby's lawsuit opposing it. You cannot define religious freedom simply as the right to gather together for a Sunday Service and have it fit what Christians believe the Bible to command. Worship involves one's whole life, including one's sexuality.

As Secularism continues to gain power, the only result will be to push religion further out of the mainstream, which has been the goal from the beginning since Secularism has never been neutral.

My main question here involves how the 1st Amendment will be altered or ignored to allow for this. Until now, certain protections have been given, but I can see that changing.






Back to top
GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
11367 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

It is an interesting issue in regard to religious freedom in America from a Constitutional sense. Secluarists say that religious freedom is granted because people can "worship" how they choose. Of course, "worship" is defined as gathering in a building and reading a text, praying, and perhaps singing a few songs. But, the Christian version of "worship" involves one's whole life. This is at the root of the HHS mandate and Hobby Lobby's lawsuit opposing it. You cannot define religious freedom simply as the right to gather together for a Sunday Service and have it fit what Christians believe the Bible to command. Worship involves one's whole life, including one's sexuality.


In regards to your original question, I agree when it comes to how one practices his faith personally. Put another way, if you don't like gay marriage and feel it's against your faith, fine. You have every right to feel that way and practice that faith. If you feel your faith means you need to force this prohibition onto others that don't share your faith, then I think that's where the problem arises.

quote:

My main question here involves how the 1st Amendment will be altered or ignored to allow for this.


I don't think it will. I don't think churches will be forced into doing them (gay marriages.) If they were, I think you'd have a point. If they aren't and are merely shunned for not doing them by the public, that's not a 1st amendment issue.






Back to top
BlackHelicopterPilot
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
32375 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

GeauxTigerTM



I echo both of your posts...well done






Back to top
Sidbarret
LSU Fan
Charleston, SC
Member since Apr 2008
393 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

But, the Christian version of "worship" involves one's whole life.


Couldn't this be said about any religion?






Back to top
rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


This is a good question, there is no doubt that they shouldn't be forced to.

quote:

Will they lose their tax exempt status?


They may, look at the reaction the gov't gave with obamacare and the funding of abortions which christian hospitals and such oppose. The 501c3 status may be a way of punishing this view which would may appeal to the left. So much for promoting general welfare right? I mean after Katrina Churches were some of the biggest sources of aid to communities.

quote:

Is there a way that groups that oppose homosexuatity on religious grounds will be able to be accepted in the New America,


No, see chick-fil-a, the message from the left is loud and clear. You live in a country where there is supposed to be acceptance of different views, religions ect. but its only accpeted if it matches their view of what the world should be.






Back to top
AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
12740 posts
 Online 

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


I agree with you as well and you make really good points.

I guess that I can see a lot of private and public institutions hindering access by religious groups because of their stance on this issue. It does not mean that people cannot be Christians, it will just mean that they will not have the same access that they have had in the past. I wonder if some of this might infringe on First Amendment rights. I imagine that the Courts will have a whole new batch of cases to look at that go beyond Nativity Scenes at the Courthouse.

How much will the public backlash against any group that does not affirm homosexuality cause Constitutional issues?

I can see a day when Southern Baptists, for instance, are seen in society the same way that the KKK is now, primarily because they think homosexuality is a sin. That will be a real game changer in America, I think.






Back to top
Newbomb Turk
Navy Fan
perfectanschlagen
Member since May 2008
9961 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Not sure what you mean. If you mean, will they be forced to do them, I would say no. If you mean looked down upon, then yes...probably.


Not a f*cking chance.

Don't believe the complete bullsh!t propaganda being put out there by the far left nutjobs and their komrades in the mainstream media.

In one of the most most far left whacko states out there, the People's Republic of Mary(fantasy)land, the ballot measure barely passed 52-48. If you can only get 52% of the vote in that nutjob state, there's not a f*cking chance that this will be considered "normal" or mainstream for AT LEAST another hundred years.






Back to top
Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52230 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


Gay marriage, as is being discussed politically, is not the Christian recognized marriage.

It is state recognized contractual partnership between 2 persons.

There is a difference.

Nobody will make churches perform gay marriages, because it is a direct violation of our religious freedom.

The precedent would be scary for anyone in this country.

This country would revolt were such a thing done, and the secularists and religious would march side by side to oppose this.






Back to top
Squid
Vanderbilt Fan
Goodlettsville
Member since Sep 2006
692 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


I have no doubts that someone will bring a lawsuit and try to force it, if they haven't already.





Back to top
Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52230 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


If no church anywhere performs a single gay marriage, it doesn't change their access to marriage.

City/Town Hall, JOP, etc.






Back to top
Queen
LSU Fan
383 miles from Death Valley
Member since Nov 2009
2757 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


They can't be forced to perform marriage that doesn't fit with their beliefs. If they lose 501c3 status, so be it for any legitimate church that isn't in it to make money.

Look at Catholic Charities in Massachusetts. State said they couldn't discriminate against gay couples in adoption, so they just stopped doing adoption services. In that situation the kids lose, all because the government tried to force a religious organization to do its will.






Back to top
DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8617 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Look at Catholic Charities in Massachusetts. State said they couldn't discriminate against gay couples in adoption, so they just stopped doing adoption services. In that situation the kids lose, all because the government tried to force a religious organization to do its will.


The same may happen with charitable donations to churches and outside of churches by Christians if the government takes such actions.

It is inarguable that religious individuals give more to charity, in the form of not only money, but time, than non-religious.

See below:

quote:

BOSTON — States with the least religious residents are also the stingiest about giving money to charity, a new study on the generosity of Americans suggests.

The study, released Monday by the Chronicle of Philanthropy, found that residents in states where religious participation is higher than the rest of the nation, particularly in the South, gave the greatest percentage of their discretionary income to charity.

The Northeast, with lower religious participation, was the least generous to charities, with the six New England states filling the last six slots among the 50 states. Churches are among the organizations counted as charities by the study, and some states in the Northeast rank in the top 10 when religious giving is not counted.

The most generous state was Utah, where residents gave 10.6 percent of their discretionary income to charity. Next were Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee and South Carolina. The least generous was New Hampshire, at 2.5 percent, followed by Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts and Rhode Island.


LINK


quote:

Concerning the issue of atheism and charity, charitable giving by atheists and agnostics in America is significantly less than by theists, according to a study by the Barna Group:





The typical no-faith American donated just $200 in 2006, which is more than seven times less than the amount contributed by the prototypical active-faith adult ($1500). Even when church-based giving is subtracted from the equation, active-faith adults donated twice as many dollars last year as did atheists and agnostics. In fact, while just 7% of active-faith adults failed to contribute any personal funds in 2006, that compares with 22% among the no-faith adults.[1]




A comprehensive study by Harvard University professor Robert Putnam found that religious people are more charitable than their irreligious counterparts.[2][3] The study revealed that forty percent of worship service attending Americans volunteer regularly to help the poor and elderly as opposed to 15% of Americans who never attend services.[4][5] Moreover, religious individuals are more likely than non-religious individuals to volunteer for school and youth programs (36% vs. 15%), a neighborhood or civic group (26% vs. 13%), and for health care (21% vs. 13%).[6][7]

Arthur C. Brooks wrote in Policy Review regarding data collected in the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS) (data collected by in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research):





The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.[8]




ABC News reported the following:





...the single biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable is their religious participation.
Religious people are more likely to give to charity, and when they give, they give more money: four times as much. And Arthur Brooks told me that giving goes beyond their own religious organization:

"Actually, the truth is that they're giving to more than their churches," he says. "The religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly non-religious charities."[9]


This Link Has Internal Links To Studies






Back to top
ironsides
LSU Fan
new york, ny
Member since May 2006
5782 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Just as any group in 2012 would be looked down upon if they opposed interracial marriage.


Inter-racial marriage is not the same thing as gay marriage.






Back to top
Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52230 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Inter-racial marriage is not the same thing as gay marriage.
today it isn't.

Rewind to 1940, and see what you think.






Back to top
ironsides
LSU Fan
new york, ny
Member since May 2006
5782 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

Rewind to 1940, and see what you think.


I don't need to - I can re-wind to the time that the bible was written, and there's nothing in there against people of two different races getting married / loving one another.






Back to top
lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1863 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


They will be forced to accept/marry them or lose their tax exempt status or have some other punishment. I don't see how this is arguable with everything we have seen the government do.

The caveat is they will be allowed to operate just not tax exempt and the libs will say "they are allowed to operate gay free, see!" But, it will be after they are punished.






Back to top
GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
11367 posts

re: Will Christian Churches Be Forced to Accept Gay Marriage/Rights as Normal?


quote:

I don't need to - I can re-wind to the time that the bible was written, and there's nothing in there against people of two different races getting married / loving one another.


Didn't stop 'necks form claiming otherwise.



In case you can't read it because of the size, that middle sign reads, "Stop the Race Mixing. March of the Anti-Christ"

I'm not saying you're misreading your scripture, just that it's irrelevant in terms of public perception. I'm sure Mulsims who practice sharia are getting it from somewhere...doesn't mean the rest of the world will respect their beliefs.

There will, sooner rather than later, come a time when people will look back on this "Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve" nonsense the same way we look at these ignorant frick in the above picture and shake their heads.






Back to top


Back to top




//