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Dooshay 
LSU Fan
CEBA
Member since Jun 2011
26267 posts
| Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 3:20 pm)
This administration is going to keep spending and we'll end up paying for it sooner or later.
We've been dealing with "recession" and unemployment for so long that would it really have an impact on Americans? What's another 750k jobs?
Since we can't do anything about it for another four years, should we just nut up and bail our country out by increasing everyone's taxes and let the freeloaders enjoy it while it lasts?
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40143 posts
 Online
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 3:25 pm to Dooshay)
quote:
Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us?
yes.
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mooseknuckle
Houston Fan
Your mouthwash ain't makin' it...
Member since Aug 2006
3671 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 4:42 pm to Dooshay)
Just go ahead and rip off the band aid.
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Dooshay
LSU Fan
CEBA
Member since Jun 2011
26267 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 4:52 pm to mooseknuckle)
Well it's either build up a frickton of debt until the country realizes how fricked we are, or buckle down and take care of it. Americans are pretty good at the latter. I also don't think we'll get rid of entitlements and stop producing people who think they are entitled. We may as well just deal with it.
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LSUwag
LSU Fan
Orlandeaux
Member since Jan 2007
5077 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 5:32 pm to Dooshay)
I'm all in. I hope congress stays completely gridlocked on this and everything else for that matter. This is the only way anything gets reformed.
Pain and misery is the only way American voters will wake the hell up and vote responsibly.
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udtiger
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2006
18047 posts
Online
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 6:35 pm to Dooshay)
YES!!!!!!!
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Bard 
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
12799 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 6:50 pm to Dooshay)
The problem is that there are still do many Dems in Congress that think it's still time for political games. The GOP has caved on tax hikes (cleverly referred to as "revenues" by the media), but when asking the Dems what cuts they are willing to make the response is "no, what cuts do YOU want?".
The ploy behind this is that whatever the GOP says it wants to cut, these same Dems will then run to the media -cloaked in righteous indignation- to claim that the evil GOP wants to starve/kill the (name a constituency).
With that, as long as you have enough people from either party that are stupid and selfish enough to not yet realize that there is no time nor room left for this kind of bullshite, the fiscal cliff isn't the best or worst thing for us, it's the ONLY thing for us.
The federal government has been bringing in record and near-record revenues since the Bush tax cuts went into effect in 2005. Removing all mandatory spending and just leaving Social Security, Medicare/caid & Defense spending still leaves a yearly deficit of around $200-$300 billion.
Under Bush the average deficit was about $300 billion per year. Under Obama it's been about $1.2 trillion per year. This means the yearly deficit has been about 50% more than total revenues each year and THAT means that there's absolutely no way in hell that taxes can ever be raised enough to make up the difference (ie: "increased revenues") without utterly fricking the economy.
Until both parties are willing to admit this and work from that point on, we are on a sinking ship without a lifeboat in sight.
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thetempleowl
Temple Fan
dallas, tx
Member since Jul 2008
9906 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 7:21 pm to Bard)
The correct answer is no.
The thing to hope for is that we come up with a responsible plan to handle our debt and deficit going forward.
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Diamondawg 
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8264 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 7:41 pm to thetempleowl)
quote:
The thing to hope for is that we come up with a responsible plan to handle our debt and deficit going forward.
Yeah - like a long time ago. Sort of kind of had a chance to do that in 2010. Burn this son of a bitch down and lets rebuild.
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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
12799 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 11/30/12 at 7:44 pm to thetempleowl)
quote:
The thing to hope for is that we come up with a responsible plan to handle our debt and deficit going forward.
I hope to win the Powerball someday. Our two hopes have about the same chances of happening as long as there are still jerkwads in power in DC that think the problem isn't yet serious enough to stop playing politics.
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Dooshay
LSU Fan
CEBA
Member since Jun 2011
26267 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 12/1/12 at 2:45 pm to Bard)
quote:
This means the yearly deficit has been about 50% more than total revenues each year and THAT means that there's absolutely no way in hell that taxes can ever be raised enough to make up the difference (ie: "increased revenues") without utterly fricking the economy.
The deficit is only goin to increase with his spending and the taxpayers will inevitably have to bail out the gov't at some point. Should we get a head start before everything collapses? I don't want to, but it seems we're out of options at this point. We're in an era of Robin Hood-ing everyone with a job in a piss poor job situation an I don't see it changing.
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TupeloTiger
LSU Fan
Tupelo,Ms.[via Bastrop,La.]
Member since Jul 2004
2192 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 12/1/12 at 3:07 pm to Dooshay)
I was listening to David Gergen on CNN and he was saying that the 823 billion Obama spent on Stimulus in '09, that was partially borrowed from China, was built into the secret budget again into '10,'11'and '12. So we kept spending that amount,$823 billion each year. On what? More foodstamps and disability. If there is total disregard for our financial future, except raise more taxes, then maybe a Greece style cliff is best . Then start over.
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2159 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 12/1/12 at 3:58 pm to Dooshay)
quote:
Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us?
Absolutely not. And its not even about the rates.
They could negotiate a deal that gave us the same rate increases as just letting things expire, but it would be better because consumer and business confidence would go up knowing the D's and R's could reach a deal.
The R's have been killing the country with the cry baby attitude and unwillingness to negotiate. And its not all Republicans, just the crazy people and the big money interests like Norquist that have been running the show. Glad to see they are getting cast off.
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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
12799 posts
| re: Could the fiscal cliff be the best thing for us? (Posted on 12/1/12 at 10:02 pm to mmcgrath)
quote:
The R's have been killing the country with the cry baby attitude and unwillingness to negotiate. And its not all Republicans, just the crazy people and the big money interests like Norquist that have been running the show. Glad to see they are getting cast off.
The reason the GOP has been so unwilling to negotiate is because the problem isn't a lack of revenues, it's a lack of controls on spending. The more money the federal government gets in, the more it wastes.
Since 2005 the federal government has taken in record and near-record revenues EVERY YEAR. From 2000-2008 the yearly deficit averaged around 300 billion. From 2009 until now it's averaged 1.2Trillion per year. This means the current yearly deficit is roughly 50% greater than the revenues coming in.
To put it in more manageable numbers, someone making $60k a year is spending all of their money every year on whatever plus spending another $30k each year on charities. This person is then going to their boss and demanding a raise because for some strange reason they are getting deeper and deeper into debt each year.
The GOP's unwillingness to move on taxes has been akin to saying "we need to stop spending so much fricking money". The Dem's wanting to raise taxes is akin to the person telling their employer "Shut the frick up and give me another raise, bitch".
Where this comes into play with the fiscal cliff is that the current debate is merely the foreplay before real deficit control discussions come up.
Even then it's going to be little more than more rounds of political flexing to see who blinks first because no one goes to DC to only serve one term and the cuts needed to get us back on some sort of sane financial path would get almost every member of Congress fired when their next election came up.
But yeah, keep believing it's the GOP not willing to raise taxes that's the problem. 
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