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Geauxrilla Ballz
S'port
Member since Jan 2009
269 posts
| Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 10:51 pm)
The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
The Origin of the Palestine - Israel Conflict
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Tiger Authority 
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2007
29230 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 10:58 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz)
A 40 page PDF?
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Geauxrilla Ballz
S'port
Member since Jan 2009
269 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 11:16 pm to Tiger Authority)
quote:
A 40 page PDF?
Yeah, it's kinda complicated.
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Kashonly
Member since Jan 2006
22216 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 11:49 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
As such, it is morally ndefensible.
no proof reader?
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City
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2005
688 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 11:51 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
Yeah, it's kinda complicated
Can you summarize or give us a few meaningful quotes...?
I'm interested, but definitely not gonna read a 40 page PDF..
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City
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2005
688 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 11:52 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
no proof reader?
You shitty bastard.
ETA: I need your email Kash. I'm heading out that way in January...
This post was edited on 11/23 at 11:54 pm
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MagicCityBlazer
UAB Fan
Birmingham
Member since Nov 2010
713 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/23/12 at 11:55 pm to City)
Paging CT Tiger.
The pdf as far as i could make it...
Basically Palestinians are wronged and the "zionists" are land grabbing evil doers.
*cue Ghandi name drop quote about evil land grabbing.*
Oh yeah, Palestinian injustices upon Jews are cool, because Jews started it.
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Geauxrilla Ballz
S'port
Member since Jan 2009
269 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 12:09 am to MagicCityBlazer)
quote:
Oh yeah, Palestinian injustices upon Jews are cool, because Jews started it.
No one thinks that, not even Ghandi.
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City
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2005
688 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 12:17 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
No one thinks that, not even Ghandi.
Gandhi was a pacifist. Pacifism has never had a place in the Israel/Palestine conflict, and probably never will hold any significance.
ETA: Not saying that peace is a bad thing. It is just very unlikely.
This post was edited on 11/24 at 12:22 am
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Geauxrilla Ballz
S'port
Member since Jan 2009
269 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 12:21 am to City)
Jesus, also, is a pacifist. That fact is significant.
I agree, peace is not likely.
This post was edited on 11/24 at 12:23 am
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City
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2005
688 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 12:30 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
Jesus, also, is a pacifist. That fact is significant.
Jesus is a great leader, and I respect his work ethic. He has garnered my respect in the past few months in the way he runs his crew. My lawn looks great, and they maintain my flower beds with great care.
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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
4702 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 1:48 am to City)
Indigenous has such a loose meaning now. Apparently it means who is ever left there when the last empire ruling over the land is overthrown. Arabs aren't indigenous to the area. I am not saying they haven't been there for a long time, but i twas because Arabs conquered a good portion of the world from their homeland int he arab peninsula.
IF We were taken over by china, we wouldn't be the indigenous people of america. It would still be the Native Americans, even though Europeans have lived here fore 500+ years.
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City
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2005
688 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 2:23 am to SammyTiger)
quote:
IF We were taken over by china, we wouldn't be the indigenous people of america. It would still be the Native Americans, even though Europeans have lived here fore 500+ years.
I see your point, but we will never be taken over by China or anyone else.
Unless they're willing to use a nuke, which would render oilfields and farmland useless, no country will ever take the United States over (as long as the population is allowed their 2nd amendment rights...
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
12689 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 4:57 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
Who are they? They do not identify themselves other than by a P.O. Box for the organization. Searching for them using Google turns up nothing except links to the document you linked.
I am more than a little bit skeptical about an organization that doesn't have its own web site. There is no page with information about the organization its founding and its principles.
As for the article, it contains many singular statements that it quotes form other sources, but jt does not provide sufficient attribution to be able to chack those sources to determine the context in which those statements were made or written. In other words, it is less scholarly then a Wikipedia entry, and more anonymous.
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Fat Bastard 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Paradise
Member since Mar 2009
13467 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:06 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 Calls for:
-Recognition of Israel's right to exist
-An end to the state of war maintained by the Arab world against Israel
-Secure and recognized boundaries for Israel
242 DOES NOT REQUIRE ISRAEL TO RETURN TO THE NON-SECURE BORDERS OF PRE-1967.
Arthur J. Goldberg, an author of U.N. Resolution 242, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (1965-1967):
"It calls for respect and acknowledgment of the sovereignty of every state in the area. Since Israel never denied the sovereignty of its neighbouring countries, this language obviously requires those countries to acknowledge Israel's sovereignty."
"The notable omissions in regard to withdrawal are the word 'the' or 'all' and 'the June 5, 1967 lines' the resolution speaks of withdrawal from occupied territories, without defining the extent of withdrawal."
"The Meaning of 242" - June 10, 1977
Lord Caradon, an author of U.N. Resolution 242, U.K. Ambassador to the United Nations (1964-1970):
"We didn't say there should be a withdrawal to the '67 line; we did not put the 'the' in, we did not say all the territories, deliberately.. We all knew - that the boundaries of '67 were not drawn as permanent frontiers, they were a cease-fire line of a couple of decades earlier... We did not say that the '67 boundaries must be forever."
MacNeil/Lehrer Report - March 30, 1978
Eugene V. Rostow, U.S. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs (1966-1969):
"Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338... rest on two principles, Israel may administer the territory until its Arab neighbors make peace; and when peace is made, Israel should withdraw to 'secure and recognized borders', which need not be the same as the Armistice Demarcation Lines of 1949."
"The Truth About 242" - November 5, 1990
Lyndon B. Johnson, U.S. President (1963-1968):
"We are not the ones to say where other nations should draw lines between them that will assure each the greatest security. It is clear, however, that a return to the situation of June 4, 1967 will not bring peace."
September 10, 1968
U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 - A set of guidelines for Peace & Security
What does it say?
-"Termination of all claims or states of belligerency "
-"respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and political independence of every State in the area "
-"[every State's] right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."
-"Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict."
What does it mean?
-The Arab states must end the state of war initiated and maintained by them since 1948.
-The Arab states must recognize Israel's right to exist.
-Israel is entitled to clearly defensible borders. This is not a privilege, but rather a right guaranteed by international law.
-Israel should withdraw from some, not all, of the territories captured in the 1967 Six-Day War.
-Israel's indefensible pre-1967 borders provided no security.
-The Arab states should sit down with Israel, without preconditions, to negotiate peace.
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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44016 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:06 am to SammyTiger)
quote:
IF We were taken over by china, we wouldn't be the indigenous people of america.
That bit of irrelevant stupidity aside, if we were taken over by China would you resist the occupiers or flee to their best buddy Israel?
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Fat Bastard
New Orleans Saints Fan
Paradise
Member since Mar 2009
13467 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:10 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
Are you confused about the jewish presence there for thousands of years? The british Mandate? UN partition plan? Are you confused about the fact HAMAS is muslim brotherhood and their charter wants a destruction of israel? Are you confused about the 3 arab wars of aggression? Hezbollah attacks? PLO attacks? Are you confused about......nevermind...you clearly are confused.
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Fat Bastard
New Orleans Saints Fan
Paradise
Member since Mar 2009
13467 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:20 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
When Israel transferred military control to the PA, angry mobs burned and destroyed Jewish holy sites and religious artifacts at Jericho, Hebron, and Joseph's tomb in Nablus.
-In 2002, Palestinian terrorists took 30 monks hostage in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity because they knew Jewish soldiers would not shoot inside. After the hostages were freed, investigators found the Church profaned and desecrated.
-Jerusalem has been central to Judaism since biblical times, when it was made the eternal spiritual capital of the Jewish people. -Jews have been the majority in Jerusalem since 1840, and there has been a continual Jewish presence in Jerusalem since the destruction of the Temple in the year 70 of the common era. (Paul Johnson, History of the Jews)
-The 1917 Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations Mandate, the 1947 UN Partition Plan, and Israel's 1949 admission into the UN reaffirmed Israel the international right to exist as the Jewish homeland.- UN Security Council Resolution 242 reads that Israel should relinquish land only if it is in the context of a "peaceful and accepted settlement."
- UN Resolution 242 requires that all states in the area recognize Israel's "right to live in peace with secure and recognized borders free from threats or acts of force."
- Until 2002, Israel was the only UN member state ineligible to sit on the Security Council, and today that right is still only limited and temporary. Since the 1970s, an Arab-Soviet-Third World Bloc reinforced Israel's outcast status by barring Israel from other key UN bodies and making Israel the object of more investigative committees and special representatives than any other state in the UN.
The only period in the last 3,000 years without a continued Jewish presence in the West Bank was the 19 years between 1948-1967 when the Jordanian government banned Jews from living there.
-In 1979, Ariel Sharon dismantled Yamit and other settlements in the Sinai when it was absolutely clear that compromise would bring a true peace.
- Since the disputed territories were never part of a sovereign nation, and were acquired in a defensive war, international law permits the voluntary settlement of the land. Recognizing this, the Oslo agreements never addressed the issue of Jewish or Arab settlements.
- Israel signed independent peace treaties with Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994), each time giving away either land, oil, settlements, or strategic military advantage to achieve a peaceful agreement.
- Israel gave the Palestinian Authority land, money, weapons, training, and intelligence, all in the hope that the PA would reciprocate with an end to terror and incitement.
-In 1917, 1937, 1947, 1956, 1979, and 1993 Israeli leaders established a pattern of accepting the handover of land in exchange for peace agreements with its Arab neighbors.
-The real PLO took the Israeli Olympic delegation hostage in the 1972 Munich Olympic games, and after failing to extort the release of Palestinian prisoners, killed 11 Israeli athletes.
-The real PLO invented the idea of skyjackings in 1970, and instilled fear in travelers across the world.
-The real PLO continues to incite violence against Jews, promote the armed struggle to "liberate all of Palestine," and indoctrinate Palestinian children into a culture of hatred where death is the ultimate prize.
-The only independent sovereign nations to ever exist in the Land of Israel were the two ancient Jewish commonwealths, the second of which was destroyed in 70 of the common era.-a religious fact
- For 3,000 years, Jews have expressed the desire to return to their ancestral homeland: at the Passover Seder, the Yom Kippur service, in daily prayer, in the blessing after meals, under the wedding canopy, on the yearly day of national mourning Tisha B'Av, and by placing Israeli soil in the coffin of their deceased.
-Even after exile, Jews managed to keep a continual presence of Jewish communities in such cities as Jerusalem, Tzfat, Tiberias, Shechem, and Hebron.
-another religious fact -Centuries before the inception of Islam, Jews were yearning to return to Israel, and the Koran itself records this in many suras (chapters), such as 17:7, 17:104, and 5:21 that tells the Jews to "enter into the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you."
- When Israel gained control and reunified Jerusalem in 1967, rather than forbid Muslim worship or close the mosques, it allowed the Muslim Wafti (religious authority) to administer and control the Temple Mount and maintain the Al-Aqsa mosque.
-here's more -Under Jordanian rule, Jews were forbidden from praying at the Western Wall; the Mount of Olives cemetery and 58 Jewish synagogues were destroyed. However, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim sites are open to all worshippers under Israeli rule -- except for the site of the ancient Jewish Temple, the Temple Mount, where Jews are normally forbidden to pray.
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Meauxjeaux 
Memphis Fan
I have 91k posts with all my alters
Member since Jun 2005
13031 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:27 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
Jesus, also, is a pacifist. That fact is significant.
Somebody didn't read his Bible.
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Fat Bastard
New Orleans Saints Fan
Paradise
Member since Mar 2009
13467 posts
| re: Confused about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? (Posted on 11/24/12 at 4:57 pm to Meauxjeaux)
quote:
Somebody didn't read his Bible.
he is probably just referring to the fact Jesus was not a murderer or pedophile like Mohammed..and that jesus did not teach and preach killing and jihad like Ole Mo in the medina surahs and hadiths. 
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