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Posted on 10/10/12 at 7:17 pm to dawgfan24348
This is the first thread that I have read on here about the infield fly call, and this clearly demonstrates the utter delusion of the Bravetards in this thread even days after the actual event.
Let's review the actual play with ACTUAL RULES that you guys conveniently like to ignore. This was not even close to the worst call ever. At worst, it was a bad judgment call.
I am sure this has been posted ad nauseum, but it is critical to understand the rule:
Incorrect theories that the umps screwed the Braves:
1. The outfield umpire should have immediately signaled it was an infield fly.
The above bold statement has been voiced many times by those opposed to the call, but they would be incorrect. The infield rule states that, "The umpire's judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately." This means that the call should be made as soon as the umpire determines that he believes that it is an infield fly, not when it comes off the bat. Due to the fact that this play was a very difficult call to judge, it seems very logical that the umpire was unable to make the determination until that moment.
2. This was not a play of ordinary effort.
Well, that is merely a judgment call and it was not exactly clear cut. For a play to be of ordinary effort, the rule book defines it as this:
The umpire likely assumed that Kozma made a play of ordinary effort due to the fact that Kozma ran to the location where the would ball and waved his arms (we can all assume that he was signaling to make the catch). As soon as the umpire believed that Kozma was making a play of ordinary effort, he signaled for the infield call. The fact that Kozma did not catch the ball or lost it or whatever is not germane to the argument of ordinary effort because he gave all indications of easily making the play.
Hell, the base runners still advanced on the play, which they may not if the infield fly rule was called almost immediately. Ironically, you could make a case that the call helped the Braves, but that is, of course, a hypothetically-based claim.
In effect, the infield fly was not an egregious violation against the Braves as some people are acting. In my opinion, it was the correct call. Whether it was correct or not was simple judgment by the ump, and even if he was wrong, he is only human.
Let's review the actual play with ACTUAL RULES that you guys conveniently like to ignore. This was not even close to the worst call ever. At worst, it was a bad judgment call.
I am sure this has been posted ad nauseum, but it is critical to understand the rule:
quote:
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder-not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire's judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.
When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05(l). The infield fly rule takes precedence.
Incorrect theories that the umps screwed the Braves:
1. The outfield umpire should have immediately signaled it was an infield fly.
The above bold statement has been voiced many times by those opposed to the call, but they would be incorrect. The infield rule states that, "The umpire's judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately." This means that the call should be made as soon as the umpire determines that he believes that it is an infield fly, not when it comes off the bat. Due to the fact that this play was a very difficult call to judge, it seems very logical that the umpire was unable to make the determination until that moment.
2. This was not a play of ordinary effort.
Well, that is merely a judgment call and it was not exactly clear cut. For a play to be of ordinary effort, the rule book defines it as this:
quote:
ORDINARY EFFORT is the effort that a fielder of average skill at a position in that league or classification of leagues should exhibit on a play, with due consideration given to the condition of the field and weather conditions.
The umpire likely assumed that Kozma made a play of ordinary effort due to the fact that Kozma ran to the location where the would ball and waved his arms (we can all assume that he was signaling to make the catch). As soon as the umpire believed that Kozma was making a play of ordinary effort, he signaled for the infield call. The fact that Kozma did not catch the ball or lost it or whatever is not germane to the argument of ordinary effort because he gave all indications of easily making the play.
Hell, the base runners still advanced on the play, which they may not if the infield fly rule was called almost immediately. Ironically, you could make a case that the call helped the Braves, but that is, of course, a hypothetically-based claim.
In effect, the infield fly was not an egregious violation against the Braves as some people are acting. In my opinion, it was the correct call. Whether it was correct or not was simple judgment by the ump, and even if he was wrong, he is only human.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 7:31 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
As soon as the umpire believed that Kozma was making a play of ordinary effort, he signaled for the infield call.
Which he signaled about .000000001 tenth of a second before the ball hit the ground.
quote:
Due to the fact that this play was a very difficult call to judge
Thus, it must not have been an ORDINARY and ROUTINE fly ball.
The ball landed 225 feet in the outfield.
frick off with your arrogant explanation.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 7:33 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
The umpires know why the rule was put into place. The way it was called went entirely against that reason.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 7:36 pm to catfish 62
quote:
Thus, it must not have been an ORDINARY and ROUTINE fly ball.
No, it was difficult to judge because Kozma had to travel so far to get to the ball. However, the play still was a play of ordinary effort in the umpire's eyes, since he slowed down and waved his arms when approaching the land spot of the ball.
quote:
The ball landed 225 feet in the outfield.
That does not fricking matter, idiot.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 12:00 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
However, the play still was a play of ordinary effort in the umpire's eyes
Yeah, in the umpsire's eyes. We know it is a judgement call dbag. If you feel so strong about this play, how bout saying it was ordinary in YOUR own eyes. I bet you watched the play on sportscenter the next day. It was a horrible judgement call.
And yes, 225 feet does matter. There is nothing ordinary about a ball that lands that far away from the plate. There is no way that the shortstop could have turned a double play from that position, which the rule was created to nullify. I have seen multiple plays where a ball lands in between two fielders and it was deemed "a confusion by the players."
With that being said, I don't believe this play cost the braves the game. They played atrocious defense and did extremely poor with RISP.
So, in going back to the OP, I don't care that the fans were so ticked off.
Also, in going back to my previous post, frick you Vicks Kennel Club
Posted on 10/11/12 at 12:07 am to catfish 62
quote:
And yes, 225 feet does matter. There is nothing ordinary about a ball that lands that far away from the plate. There is no way that the shortstop could have turned a double play from that position, which the rule was created to nullify.
You are not getting the rule at all. It is not very complicated. Why does the distance away from the infield matter? All the infielder has to do it is field (or "attempt" to) easily.
quote:
There is no way that the shortstop could have turned a double play from that position, which the rule was created to nullify.
The rule does not explicitly say anything about double plays ANYWHERE. You can imply it all you want, but it is not a part of the rules. That is why that the distance away the infield is irrelevant.
quote:
Also, in going back to my previous post, frick you Vicks Kennel Club
You are the dumbass that even the other Braves fans are stupid, right?
Posted on 10/11/12 at 12:15 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
You can imply it all you want
Just as the ump did. There is nothing ordinary about running that far out. Get over it.
quote:
You are the dumbass that even the other Braves fans are stupid, right?
Solid grammar there as well. Not sure what that means.
Still not sure why you are defending a judgement call. You probably would have called that guy safe at first in Armando Galarraga's perfect game because it was a "judgement call". Doesn't make it right.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 12:16 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 12:21 am to catfish 62
quote:
Just as the ump did. There is nothing ordinary about running that far out. Get over it.
Yeah, it was an unusual play. However, it does nothing to change the ordinary effort.
quote:
Solid grammar there as well. Not sure what that means.
I dropped the word "think". Not a big deal.
quote:
Still not sure why you are defending a judgement call.
One, tards like you do not even understand the rule. Two, I thought the ump was right.
quote:
You probably would have called that guy safe at first in Armando Galarraga's perfect game because it was a "judgement call". Doesn't make it right.
No. That guy was definitely out. I am defending this because I think the ump was right.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 12:22 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 12:49 am to Vicks Kennel Club
He called infield fly after Kozma started getting out of the way.
That's my problem
That's my problem
Posted on 10/11/12 at 3:10 am to Vicks Kennel Club
You are clearly wrong. You should have just left it at "it wasn't the worst call ever." There you could at least hide behind ambiguity. The call was terrible and if you think its only Braves fans that think so, then you don't discuss sports with any baseball fans.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:50 am to Vicks Kennel Club
Vicks, if you can provide an example where a ball hit 225 feet has EVER been ruled an infield fly I will side with you.
You can support his right to make a judgment call or ague whether the play is covered under the BS rule but the fact of the matter is in the history of baseball, a ball hit 225 ft has never been called an infield fly rule.
You can support his right to make a judgment call or ague whether the play is covered under the BS rule but the fact of the matter is in the history of baseball, a ball hit 225 ft has never been called an infield fly rule.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 1:36 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
The call was terrible and if you think its only Braves fans that think so, then you don't discuss sports with any baseball fans.
There are plenty of people on both sides of the argument.
Hitacular, the distance the ball traveled is irrelevant. How many fricking times does this have to be driven into your heads?
Posted on 10/11/12 at 1:42 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
That does not fricking matter, idiot.
Common sense matters a lot actually. There is a reason no other infield fly has been called for a ball further than 175 feet.
This was not a judgement call it was an ump inserting himself into the game where he had no right or reason to do so. This is infinitely worse than missing a bang bang play at 1st or something like that.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 1:46 pm
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