Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS | Page 433 | TigerDroppings.com

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Scruffy
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Isn't the Crackpot theory with the Faceless Men is that they caused the Doom of Valyria and used Hardhome as a sort of test grounds for it? Also, maybe Jaqen is at the Citadel to learn about dragons and get rid of Dany's...
I never saw the Faceless Men as an influential group on a large scale as that. Hopefully we get some more info on them in the coming book.






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Cosmo
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I thought it was pretty much accepted, non crackpot theory that the faceless men were responsible for the doom.

The kindly man pretty much says it in aFfC






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ladytiger118
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Yeah, he told Arya that.





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Warfarer
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Isn't the Crackpot theory with the Faceless Men is that they caused the Doom of Valyria and used Hardhome as a sort of test grounds for it?


That is a stretch of a connection. What am I missing on this one?






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BlackleafBaller
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I'm pretty sure it's one of the three main factions of Braavos:
- Iron Bank
- Sealord of Braavos (& First Sword of Braavos)
- Faceless Men

The only way I see Syrio/Jaqen/Alchemist/Pate as the same person is after the last Sealord of Braavos dies (or is murdered by FM), Syrio asks for the gift/is killed, gives his face/taken like Pate, etc. Then the FM send that guy to Kings Landing, probably in search of something and then everything else happens...






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BlackleafBaller
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Westeros.org - A Thousand Eyes and Two
Most in depth theory I've seen regarding this:
quote:

So many factors seem to come together, if you think about the implications of Hardhome. The Faceless Men and the Doom. Skinchangers and dragonriders. Slavery. Aegon the Conqueror and Torrhen Stark. The Valyrian Empire and Westeros. A picture begins to emerge.


1) The Valyrian Empire DID try to conquer Westeros before Aegon the Conqueror came. Six hundred years ago, in fact. They landed forces north of the Wall, thinking that this would be the perfect way to begin an assault: the wildlings are spread out and disorganized, they have no proper towns, and the kingdoms below the Wall don't really have information about what goes on north of the Wall, relying on the (even-then) undermanned Watch. The plan was to land at Hardhome, the only proper town (thus, the only possible threat), overwhelm it, and use it as a base of operations for the landing of more forces. When everything was in order, dragons would destroy the Watch, dragonriders would open the gates, and an army would pour south of the Wall, seemingly from nowhere, surprising and overwhelming the Stark's kingdom. The Valyrian dragonriders would consolidate their forces, land more at White Harbor and along the coast, and then pour south into the Riverlands and beyond (again, using the North's natural landmarks--Moat Cailin and the Neck--to shield themselves from detection from the southern kings, until it was too late).

2) The lands beyond the Wall, however, have something Valyrians had never encountered before: skinchangers. Think about it: in all of various characters' travels through Essos, has anyone encountered any group that bear a resemblance to skinchangers? I can't think of any; no legends, no stories, nothing.

3) An exploratory force lands at Hardhome. Skinchanger meets dragonrider, and the struggle for control of the dragons---a struggle the Valyrians were completely unprepared for---leads to the mini-Doom, the destruction of Hardhome. The surviving dragons end up in caves, and die quickly in the snow--not many were brought for the first assault, in any case, and since not all skinchangers have Bran-level skill, maybe they were unable to fully warg the dragons, lost control for some reason, or there were fewer skinchangers than dragons (since skinchanging is not a common skill). In any case, Valyria abandons its plans to take Westeros, since the idea of sorcerers who can steal their dragons terrifies them.

4) The Faceless Men hear hints of this. They investigate, head to Westeros and meet some skinchangers, and adapt their magic accordingly (they can't really skinchange like a Stark, but they can push their magic in that direction). We know the Faceless Men allegedly had something to do with the Doom. We know they were slaves in Valyria, and the old gods of the North abhor slavery. When Arya puts on a new face, she can feel the personality/experiences (briefly) of the original owner; that sounds an awful lot like an approximation of warging. The House of Black and White has a weirwood door; chairs are made of weirwood with ebony faces. This can't be a coincidence---do weirwoods even grow in Essos? Not to mention that Arya hears people in Braavos talking about Jon (they call him the Black Bastard of the Wall). Why on earth do the Braavosi care about the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch? Yes, the Iron Bank wants a word with Stannis, but Arya hears about Jon, not Stannis. Braavos was founded by Valyrian slaves, and it makes sense that people in power in Braavos would be accustomed to keeping tabs on the North of Westeros, having heard rumors of a connection to the Doom.

5) There is no indication that Aegon the Conqueror ever set foot in the North---the Inn of the Kneeling Man, where Torrhen Stark surrendered, is located in the Riverlands. Which is odd, since you'd think Aegon would want to have Stark surrender in Winterfell, seat of power of the oldest ruling family in Westeros, before all of the lords of the North. No battles were fought in the North or against Northerners. Aegon the Conqueror never even tried to take the lands north of the Wall. And Aegon was willing to leave off conquering Dorne---essentially leaving an undefeated foe at his back---to accomplish the rest of his conquest. Why?

6) I think Torrhen Stark was no skinchanger, but many of his ancestors were. I mean, look at the current generation: half a dozen wargs, at least one of whom is a greenseer. Brandon and Lyanna were said to both be "part horse", and the "wolf blood" could very well be a euphemism for warging aptitude. If Benjen is Coldhands (and Coldhands and Bloodraven seem to be two separate entities), he possibly has skinchanging abilities; look at how he's able to use ravens for scouts. Aegon the Conqueror attacked when he did because he was on a timetable---he knew he had to get the North to submit before the Starks produced a skinchanger, since otherwise, his great weapon--dragons--would be useless. And look at how the Targaryens treated the Starks after the conquest: they left them the hell alone. Queen Alysanne and her husband (whose name escapes me) took their dragons on a trip North once, but it sounds like that was a really unique event. No Targaryen ever married a Stark, as far as I can tell, and that is really strange when you look at the Starks' long bloodline and enormous prestige.

7) The implications for a new Targaryen conquest are huge. It's not like Aegon can invade the North without dragons--it's winter, and because of the long isolation of the North, he can't find any Targaryen loyalists. The wildlings would laugh at him, the Northern lords are probably still pissed about Rickard/Brandon/Lyanna, and there's no indication that Aegon knows anything at all about Northern culture---the major reason Robb was declared King in the North was because the northerners were sick of being ruled from the south. So Dany brings her dragons, but they aren't the unstoppable weapon in the North that they would have been in the past; between constant snow (snow doesn't burn!) and the fact that the current crop of Starks are all wargs . . . Aegon and Dany will have to content themselves with six kingdoms, at most.



If Syrio ends up being Jaqen, et al...maybe what they were searching for in Kings Landing was a Stark with the ability to skin change...



This post was edited on 8/18 at 12:35 pm


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NIH
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


holy shite that is good.





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ladytiger118
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


That's a great read

Definitely after with the last point. Young Griff has no dragons and the North still remembers what the Targs did to the Starks during Robert's Rebellion. They're not going to surrender to Young Griff.

I'd love to see Bran warg a dragon .






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sgallo3
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I just put Arianna Martell on the iron throne in my crusader kings II campaigns haha. I secured powerful alliances in the stormlands and the reach and took out renly for the throne. Then i secured the vales alliance and used my vassels in dorne and the vale to take out any challengers until i could secure the stormlands as well

I became known as arianna the wicked and a tyrant because of all the people i sent to the wall so that i could steal their lands and titles on my way to the top



This post was edited on 8/18 at 4:57 pm


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ladytiger118
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Is that the ASOIAF board game?





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sgallo3
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


No its a game of thrones mod for the pc game crusader kings 2

I tried to find a image of the map but its cut off most of the north and dorne. Each color has probably 30 smaller counties in it






This post was edited on 8/18 at 5:06 pm


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TigerintheNO
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


that's a good read


quote:

No Targaryen ever married a Stark, as far as I can tell, and that is really strange


Did a Targaryen ever marry a Tully, Tyrell, Lannister, Greyjoy, Bolton, or Arryn?


quote:

where Torrhen Stark surrendered, is located in the Riverlands. Which is odd, since you'd think Aegon would want to have Stark surrender in Winterfell, seat of power of the oldest ruling family in Westeros, before all of the lords of the North. No battles were fought in the North or against Northerners


Torrhen surrendered with his entire army, North's lords, with him.

The King who knelt






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ladytiger118
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I'm sure a longlonglonglong time ago one of the Starks married a Bolton.

Also, saw this article on my newsfeed.

15 Dating Tips from GoT






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Warfarer
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Torrhen surrendered with his entire army, North's lords, with him.

The King who knelt


Now I am thinking I need to go through the bluray extras. That is very well done.

Is the voice Robb?






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ladytiger118
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS




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CE Tiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Tommen recast with one of the dead lannister cousins. This should be fun for the hodors.

LINK






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TigerintheNO
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


That's the 2nd time they have recasted someone in a different role.





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ladytiger118
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Yeah, I saw that too. I figured they would recast Tommen.

Now, is Myrcella in Dorne going to take place in Season 5 instead? Or this season? And are they going to keep the same actress for her?

And Lancel and Kevan need to be in season 4 damnit.






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Cosmo
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


hodors are gonna be so confused when a whole new land of Dorne with like a dozen new characters pops up next season

and of course a bunch more Ironborn characters






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ladytiger118
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Member since Aug 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Yeah, that's what I figure too...They're gonna be like "Who are the Dornish?" "What is a Damphair and a Crow's Eye?" "Oh, Dany is too good to want to marry an Ironborn!" (and then we see her taste in men favor Daario).

ETA: Cosmo, I wouldn't put it past the Hodors to forget who Kevan and Lancel are...

"Who is Lancel? I have short term memory loss and he hasn't been on the show since Blackwater so I am so confused lololol and I don't know who Kevan is even though he was in Season 1."



This post was edited on 8/19 at 4:02 pm


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