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Message
Les Should Have Emulated Buddy Ryan on January 9th
Posted on 1/18/12 at 11:53 am
Posted on 1/18/12 at 11:53 am
I posted this on January 10th but it quickly got buried amidst all the emotion. Maybe the point can be discussed rationally. This is not a "bash Les" post because I defend him and I hope we can rationally talk football here in the midst of the crazies.
Buddy Ryan's last game at Philadelphia before getting fired was a 1991 playoff loss to the Redskins where the Eagles' offense was horrible.
Buddy brought in Jim McMahon in the middle of the third quarter when Randall Cunningham was totally ineffective. Unfortunately for Buddy and the Eagles, Jimbo wasn't much better.
But hey, it wasn't rocket science. In "Bringing the Heat" by Mark Bowden, the author describes this small part of Buddy's postgame press conference:
Buddy wasn't a deep thinker--but he did realize that, hey, things can't get any worse so let me bring in a different guy.
I've defended Miles and thought that generally JJ gave us the best chance to win.
But it was obvious that night, JJ was not only totally ineffective but he was rattled and needed to be replaced early just like JL was rattled and needed to be replaced at Tuscaloosa.
I kinda doubt Lee would have done much better the way the gump defense was playing but again, it's not rocket science.
Les, sometimes you need to bring in a different pitcher to see if he "might get us something going."
If there was ever a time for desperation, it was in the middle of the third quarter in the Superdome on January 9th.
Buddy Ryan's last game at Philadelphia before getting fired was a 1991 playoff loss to the Redskins where the Eagles' offense was horrible.
Buddy brought in Jim McMahon in the middle of the third quarter when Randall Cunningham was totally ineffective. Unfortunately for Buddy and the Eagles, Jimbo wasn't much better.
But hey, it wasn't rocket science. In "Bringing the Heat" by Mark Bowden, the author describes this small part of Buddy's postgame press conference:
quote:
His decision to insert Jimbo was just an act of desperation. "I thought a different pitcher might get us something going," he said.
Buddy wasn't a deep thinker--but he did realize that, hey, things can't get any worse so let me bring in a different guy.
I've defended Miles and thought that generally JJ gave us the best chance to win.
But it was obvious that night, JJ was not only totally ineffective but he was rattled and needed to be replaced early just like JL was rattled and needed to be replaced at Tuscaloosa.
I kinda doubt Lee would have done much better the way the gump defense was playing but again, it's not rocket science.
Les, sometimes you need to bring in a different pitcher to see if he "might get us something going."
If there was ever a time for desperation, it was in the middle of the third quarter in the Superdome on January 9th.
This post was edited on 1/18/12 at 12:27 pm
4
Posted on 1/18/12 at 11:56 am to timlan2057
Spot on. It's history, but I think that is all some of us were saying. It did not appear to be JJ's (or anyone's) night, so try something else..anything!
Oh well, looking forward to 2012!
Oh well, looking forward to 2012!
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:04 pm to 2007lsuno1
Agreed. Still pissed and disappointed, but getting better each day.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:18 pm to timlan2057
Take a punch at the Offensive Coordinator? LINK
This post was edited on 1/18/12 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:23 pm to timlan2057
quote:
But it was obvious that night, JJ was not only totally ineffective but he was rattled and needed to be replaced early just like JL was rattled and needed to be replaced at Tuscaloosa.
I feel the exact same way that you do. He needed to make a change but didn't. I understand why he preferred JJ but the dude was choking big time.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:23 pm to TexasTiger89
Take a punch at the Offensive Coordinator
First thought that came to my mind.
First thought that came to my mind.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:26 pm to timlan2057
You are suggesting that Miles should have done what Ryan did because it won the game for them?
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:28 pm to Uncommon Cents
No need. JJ was fine handing it off the fullback and running the short side option......
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:29 pm to biscuitsngravy
quote:
No need. JJ was fine handing it off the fullback and running the short side option......
Have an adult read the OP to you then get back to me.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:30 pm to Uncommon Cents
quote:
You are suggesting that Miles should have done what Ryan did because it won the game for them?
It didn't, but it couldn't have gotten any worse for the Eagles in December of 1991 or for the Tigers in January 2012.
Yes, I think Les should have brought in a relief pitcher. JJ was obviously rattled.
Now, this is just talking football and I can say that and second-guess the coach without emulating the morons on here calling for Miles' head, thinking there was some kind of conspiracy afoot or screeching that the program is on the verge of collapse.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:32 pm to timlan2057
Ok. Now you have me confused.
1. You think that Miles should have done the same thing that Ryan did?
2. Because changing the QB won the game for Ryan?
1. You think that Miles should have done the same thing that Ryan did?
2. Because changing the QB won the game for Ryan?
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:37 pm to Uncommon Cents
No doubt j lee should have played. Les is stubborn. We lost because of it. Let it go.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:43 pm to Uncommon Cents
quote:
Ok. Now you have me confused.
1. You think that Miles should have done the same thing that Ryan did?
2. Because changing the QB won the game for Ryan?
Let's continue the baseball metaphor Buddy used about a "different pitcher."
What happens when the starting pitcher gets shelled for 6 runs in the first couple innings?
USUALLY you relieve him and if the reliever is effective, your team has a chance to come back and win.
Of course, sometimes the reliever gets shelled too.
But according to your logic, a baseball manager should NEVER relieve a starter.
Now again I emphasize, I believe JJ in general gave the 2011 Tigers the best chance to win. And there have been times he's been ineffective but then played his way out of it--Arkansas and Georgia, for example.
However, in those games, at least to my perception, JJ was not RATTLED even though he was ineffective.
He was rattled big-time against the gumps.
This is all a matter of playing the odds. Don't tell me that Les doesn't know about gambling.
In this case, I think the situation that we found ourselves in about the middle of the third quarter called for bringing in a relief pitcher.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:53 pm to timlan2057
I'm just asking a couple of questions.
Here we go again.
You are the one that put out the Ryan scenario.
1. Did he change QB's?
2. Did it win the game for him?
That's all I'm asking.
Switching metaphor isn't answering my question.
Now if 1. is Yes and 2. is No, why should Miles immitate Ryan if the outcome was the same?
Here we go again.
You are the one that put out the Ryan scenario.
1. Did he change QB's?
2. Did it win the game for him?
That's all I'm asking.
Switching metaphor isn't answering my question.
Now if 1. is Yes and 2. is No, why should Miles immitate Ryan if the outcome was the same?
Posted on 1/18/12 at 12:57 pm to TexasTiger89
quote:
Take a punch at the Offensive Coordinator?
This is the first thing that came to my mind.
I agree with the post
Posted on 1/18/12 at 1:03 pm to timlan2057
quote:
But according to your logic, a baseball manager should NEVER relieve a starter.
Logic left the building when we started comparing baseball pitchers to football QBs.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 1:51 pm to Uncommon Cents
quote:
I'm just asking a couple of questions.
Here we go again.
You are the one that put out the Ryan scenario.
1. Did he change QB's?
2. Did it win the game for him?
That's all I'm asking.
Switching metaphor isn't answering my question.
Now if 1. is Yes and 2. is No, why should Miles immitate Ryan if the outcome was the same?
Let's try it one more time, then my patience for answering nit-picking will be exhausted.
Answers to your specific question:
1) Yes
2) No
In that case, changing qbs did not win the game. However, the "nothing to lose" attitude is correct, and that is what Miles should have emulated.
So now YOU answer me this, if you like strictly "yes" or "no" questions:
Would Philly have won the game if they left Cunningham in?
It's not a "yes" or "no" question.
Now, as to your nitpick as to why I entitled the post "Les Should Have Emulated Buddy" ...
1) Buddy's attitude and philosophy were correct even though the specific result in that particular incident did not result in a win.
2) Buddy succinctly expressed himself with "I just thought a different pitcher might get us something going." I had a citation to use as an example, hence the title of the post.
Of course I'm not stupid enough to be asserting that changing quarterbacks ALWAYS results in a come-from-behind win.
And no, you're not stupid enough to be asserting that sticking with an obviously rattled and ineffective quarterback always results in a come-from-behind win.
At least ... I don't THINK you're stupid enough to believe that.
But that should explain why I titled my post the way I did to anyone thinking halfway rationally.
Happy now?
This post was edited on 1/18/12 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 1/18/12 at 3:00 pm to timlan2057
In other words you are suggesting that Miles use an approach that ended in failure?
OK
Next time why not use an example of a coach changing a player that produced positive results?
Football and baseball aren't the same and to try to compare the sports is silly. In today's big time baseball almost no pitcher completes a game.
OK
Next time why not use an example of a coach changing a player that produced positive results?
Football and baseball aren't the same and to try to compare the sports is silly. In today's big time baseball almost no pitcher completes a game.
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