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Message
Simple rules question...
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:17 pm
I actually scanned the NCAA rules book and could not find a clear answer to my simple question(s).
A pass hits the crossbar (or upright) and stays in the field of play. Is this a live ball before it hits the ground?
What about a kick (extra point, field goal, even a punt)?
A pass hits the crossbar (or upright) and stays in the field of play. Is this a live ball before it hits the ground?
What about a kick (extra point, field goal, even a punt)?
9
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:18 pm to Froghair
It's dead.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:19 pm to Froghair
Logic dictates yes. Part of the field of play, like the ref.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:21 pm to jddawg58
I could not find anywhere in the rule book whether or not the crossbar and uprights are in bounds or out-of-bounds.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:22 pm to Froghair
quote:
It's dead
This +1
This post was edited on 12/30/11 at 9:23 pm
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:22 pm to Froghair
Pass is still live.
The rest are dead.
Although theoretically a player could choose to field a punt that bounced off the uprights, but why?
The rest are dead.
Although theoretically a player could choose to field a punt that bounced off the uprights, but why?
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:23 pm to jddawg58
quote:
Logic dictates yes. Part of the field of play, like the ref.
Nope
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:39 pm to Rush2112
The crossbar is technically out of bounds, as it originates out of bounds.
If a live ball touches the goalpost at all it is dead immediately as it is out of bounds.
If a live ball touches the goalpost at all it is dead immediately as it is out of bounds.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:45 pm to MintBerry Crunch
quote:
The crossbar is technically out of bounds, as it originates out of bounds.
If a live ball touches the goalpost at all it is dead immediately as it is out of bounds.
This
Posted on 12/30/11 at 9:48 pm to Rush2112
Live Ball
ARTICLE 1. A live ball is a ball in play. A pass, kick or fumble that has not yet
touched the ground is a live ball in flight.
According to this it seems if, for example, a pass is in play the others must be too. I started thinking about this in the case of field goals and/or extra points because earlier in the bowl season on a place kick the ball hit one upright then the other and then went through. So I started thinking about other possible scenarios...
Field goal attempt hits an upright, bounces back into the field of play and is caught by an offensive player in the end zone? Caught by an offensive player behind the line of scrimmage and run into the end zone? Same thing with extra points. One point? Two points?
There are many theoretical possibilities IF the ball is live including whether or not defensive players can return the ball for points. Return a field goal attempt for six points? Return an extra point attempt for two points?
I thought the rule book would specifically define whether or not the crossbar and uprights are in bounds, but I can't find it. It would be a simple matter to do so.
ARTICLE 1. A live ball is a ball in play. A pass, kick or fumble that has not yet
touched the ground is a live ball in flight.
According to this it seems if, for example, a pass is in play the others must be too. I started thinking about this in the case of field goals and/or extra points because earlier in the bowl season on a place kick the ball hit one upright then the other and then went through. So I started thinking about other possible scenarios...
Field goal attempt hits an upright, bounces back into the field of play and is caught by an offensive player in the end zone? Caught by an offensive player behind the line of scrimmage and run into the end zone? Same thing with extra points. One point? Two points?
There are many theoretical possibilities IF the ball is live including whether or not defensive players can return the ball for points. Return a field goal attempt for six points? Return an extra point attempt for two points?
I thought the rule book would specifically define whether or not the crossbar and uprights are in bounds, but I can't find it. It would be a simple matter to do so.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 10:06 pm to Froghair
i guess it depends on if the sec refs think it will help al/au or not.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 10:07 pm to Froghair
They're not. Trust me. I know.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 10:11 pm to MintBerry Crunch
quote:
The crossbar is technically out of bounds, as it originates out of bounds.
If a live ball touches the goalpost at all it is dead immediately as it is out of bounds.
Wait....we have all seen kicked balls hit the crossbar or upright and bounce THROUGH. In that case, the field goal / extra point is GOOD.
So, why would a ball that bounces out not still be live?
This post was edited on 12/30/11 at 10:11 pm
Posted on 12/30/11 at 10:26 pm to Froghair
A passed ball that hits the goalpost is dead.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 10:30 pm to Tigerlair78
I think those of you who say the ball is dead are probably right, I just can't find a definitive rule.
Posted on 12/30/11 at 11:15 pm to Froghair
Maybe ya'll should discuss this until next season starts. It's a lot better than the jj/jl debacle.
Posted on 12/31/11 at 12:10 am to blackjackjackson
quote:
it depends on if the sec refs think it will help al/au or not.
This +1000. I know the PAC-12 handles the situation according to if it helps out USCw, as does Big 10 with OSU and Big 12 with Texas. I'm really not sure how the other conferences would handle this situation. Somebody needs to figure this out before it happens.
Posted on 12/31/11 at 7:44 am to Froghair
A loose ball that touches anything that is out of bounds, other than a player or official, is dead. The goal post is out of bounds. There is an exception to this rule: If a field goal attempt or a try hits the goal post and still goes through, it is successful. FYI - I officiated football for 25 years.
Posted on 12/31/11 at 7:56 am to fr33manator
quote:
Pass is still live.
WRONG
Posted on 12/31/11 at 8:11 am to EastForkTiger
quote:
ARTICLE 5. a. Each goal shall consist of two white or yellow uprights extending at least 30 feet above the ground with a connecting white or yellow horizontal crossbar, the top of which is 10 feet above the ground. The inside of the uprights and crossbar shall be in the same vertical plane as the inside edge of the end line. Each goal is out of bounds (see Appendix D).
quote:
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds, or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead.
So a ball that hits the cross-bar is out of bounds and therefore dead by rule.* There is a specific exception written in to allow field goals that glance off the cross-bar. Interesting, if applied literally, this rule suggests that a PAT that glances off the cross-bar and goes in is no good, because the rule only provides an exception for "field goals," not for a "try."
*By rule. What does this even mean? You always hear refs say things like "the ball went out of bounds on the kickoff and will be placed at the 35 yard line by rule." Isn't everything "by rule?" No one ever says "the runner gained ten yards and therefore is awarded a first down by rule."
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