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Chad504boy 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64724 posts
| If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 8:48 am)
Does this put us a few steps past the "Defense wins championships" with today's game and rules? Can we now say Quarterbacks and Offenses wins Championships?
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Sophandros
New Orleans Saints Fan
R'Lyeh
Member since Feb 2005
40215 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 8:49 am to Chad504boy)
Smart people have been saying that for a while now, Chad.
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Moustache 
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
14004 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 8:52 am to Chad504boy)
NYG in 2007 proved that defenses still win championships.
But, I guess QBS having one of the best seasons in history win championships too. (Brees/Rodgers)
It is much harder to find one of those guys than it is to build a great defense, hence the mantra.
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AreJay
Member since Aug 2005
4030 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 8:53 am to Chad504boy)
quote:
Does this put us a few steps past the "Defense wins championships" with today's game and rules? Can we now say Quarterbacks and Offenses wins Championships?
and looking at lsu's probable nc season, we can realize you don't need what people think of as a 'championship quarterback.' since there are no perfect teams, you can make up for deficiencies in some areas if you are great in others.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64724 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 8:54 am to Sophandros)
quote:
Smart people have been saying that for a while now, Chad.
To a point, even the Saints in 2009 had a competitive above average Defense. Green Bay currently has the 31st ranked D.
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ZTiger87 
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
8352 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:09 am to Chad504boy)
Green Bay had one of the best defenses last year. They are also 2nd in the NFL in takeaways this year. Teams still need a defense.
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Trauma14
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2010
2759 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:14 am to Chad504boy)
They haven't played San Fran yet!
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Archie Bengal Bunker 
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:17 am to Chad504boy)
quote:
Green Bay currently has the 31st ranked D.
To a point, yards don't matter that much. Green Bay is 17th in POINTS per game, and points are how you win the game. Also, they lead the league in INTs with 23 (next closest is 16). 2nd in overall takeaways. Which is something the Super Bowl winning Saints excelled at, taking the ball away.
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Ryno_Kill
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2004
2269 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:35 am to Chad504boy)
I would say the NFL has made it a offensive driven league.
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H-Town Tiger 
Virginia Tech Fan
DIANELANEPANETRANE
Member since Nov 2003
41038 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:38 am to Moustache)
quote:
It is much harder to find one of those guys than it is to build a great defense, hence the mantra.
the mantra has just been around so long, people accept it as fact and never bother to see if its true. They can, of course always find anecdotal evidence that proves the point, like IDK, the 2007 NYFG.
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medtiger
LSU Fan
Cubs Fan
Member since Sep 2003
15249 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:44 am to H-Town Tiger)
quote:
They can, of course always find anecdotal evidence that proves the point, like IDK, the 2007 NYFG.
Name a team that has won a title with a bad defense.
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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
37923 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:45 am to Moustache)
quote:
NYG in 2007 proved that defenses still win championships.
Eli had a remarkable run in those playoffs IIRC.
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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:56 am to H-Town Tiger)
quote:
They can, of course always find anecdotal evidence that proves the point, like IDK, the 2007 NYFG.
Or, you can look at the some actual data:
(total defense rank)
2008 Steelers (1)
2007 Giants (7)
2005 Steelers (4)
2002 Buccaneers (1)
2000 Ravens (2)
Others maybe not considered to have won on the D's back:
2010 Green Bay (5)
2009 Saints (25)
2006 Colts (21)
2004 Patriots (9)
2003 Patriots (7)
2001 Patriots (24)
3 of the 6 still had top 10 defenses. So, you either need an elite quarterback like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, or Brees, or you need a top defense. It also helps to have both.
LINK
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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 10:05 am to medtiger)
quote:
Name a team that has won a title with a bad defense.
3 of the last 11 have won with a porous defenses, see above. But, there could be other stats that those D's excelled in like takeaways, just like the Packers this year and the Saints in 2009. The Saints gave up a lot of yards, but they were 2nd in the league in takeaways.
2006 Indy was probably the worst. They won on Manning's back.
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H-Town Tiger
Virginia Tech Fan
DIANELANEPANETRANE
Member since Nov 2003
41038 posts
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quote:
. So, you either need an elite quarterback like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, or Brees, or you need a top defense
In other words, a great defense or a great offense 
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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
37923 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 10:25 am to H-Town Tiger)
Great defense, great offense, doesn't really matter.
Just gotta get hot at the right time.
Lots of teams play well enough in 3-4 game stretches in the regular season, that if that was the playoffs, they'd have a title.
Timing/luck.
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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
| re: If the Packers go 19-0 this year (Posted on 12/8/11 at 10:41 am to H-Town Tiger)
quote:
In other words, a great defense or a great offense
I mean only 3 of the last 11 won it with a soft D. The other winners that had a great offense also had good to great defense. So, to the OP's point:
quote:
Does this put us a few steps past the "Defense wins championships" with today's game and rules? Can we now say Quarterbacks and Offenses wins Championships?
No, more often than not, defense still wins championships. Yea, if you have a top offense it is possible to win with a below average defense, but it doesn't happen as often as the other way around (great D with an average O). The only shining example of O winning it, is the 2006 Indianapolis Mannings.
wow the 03 Pats belong on the D wins championships side....
This post was edited on 12/8 at 10:43 am
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64724 posts
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quote:
The only shining example of O winning it, is the 2006 Indianapolis Mannings.
That is the worst example ever. Did you not watch that post season and super bowl?
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H-Town Tiger
Virginia Tech Fan
DIANELANEPANETRANE
Member since Nov 2003
41038 posts
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quote:
No, more often than not, defense still wins championships. Yea, if you have a top offense it is possible to win with a below average defense, but it doesn't happen as often as the other way around (great D with an average O).
Aside from the 2000 Ravens, how many teams had a really bad offense?
I read somewhere since 1970 something 34 of the SB winners were in the top 10 in D and 29 were in the top 10 in O. Not too surprising to find good teams are good on both sides of the ball.
ETA: Check out a bood called Scorecasting, it kinda like Freakonomics but about sports. Anyway it talks about this for all sports, not just FB.
I do agree with whoever said its easier to build a good D, than to get an elite QB. Just look at the Texans this year, from worst D in the league to one of the best.
This post was edited on 12/8 at 10:51 am
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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
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Defense wins championships:
(total offense)/(total defense)
Great D:
_(9) / (5) 2010 Green Bay
(22) / (1) 2008 Steelers
(16) / (7) 2007 Giants
(15) / (4) 2005 Steelers
(17) / (7) 2003 Patriots
(24) / (1) 2002 Buccaneers
(16) / (2) 2000 Ravens
More O than D:
_(1) / (25) 2009 Saints
_(3) / (21) 2006 Colts
_(7) / _(9) 2004 Patriots <- just a great team on both sides of the ball
Anomaly:
(19) / (24) 2001 Patriots <- this must be OBUdan's team; how did they win it all?
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