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Hornets "pace"
Posted on 11/30/10 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 11/30/10 at 12:44 pm
When Monty Williams got the coaching job, one of the first things he said is he wanted us to be a up tempo team. Why wouldn't he? We have CP, Ariza, West, Willie Green, Thornton, Quincy Pondexter, etc etc.
But, through the first few weeks of the NBA season, we have been ranked near the bottom in pace.
1st week- 26th ranked
2nd week- 23rd ranked
3rd week- 24th ranked
4th week- 24th ranked
5th week- 25th ranked
We struggle downlow, we have no legimate post threats. The only guy I feel comfortable with downlow is West, and even he isn't great in the post. He relies on trying to get a defender out of position and if that doesn't work, he just forces up a bad shot.
So how do you take advantage of not having great/physical bigs? You get out and run, or just don't let the defense get set up. Yet we aren't doing that.
It bothers me.
But, through the first few weeks of the NBA season, we have been ranked near the bottom in pace.
1st week- 26th ranked
2nd week- 23rd ranked
3rd week- 24th ranked
4th week- 24th ranked
5th week- 25th ranked
We struggle downlow, we have no legimate post threats. The only guy I feel comfortable with downlow is West, and even he isn't great in the post. He relies on trying to get a defender out of position and if that doesn't work, he just forces up a bad shot.
So how do you take advantage of not having great/physical bigs? You get out and run, or just don't let the defense get set up. Yet we aren't doing that.
It bothers me.
2
Posted on 11/30/10 at 1:01 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
You get out and run
Can't run unless you get stops first. The slow pace is the Hornets trying to make the most of every half court possession and getting the best shot. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you want to avoid getting into half court sets you have to stop the team on defense to be able to run. As unintuitive as it sounds, up tempo basketball has very little to do with your offensive philosophy unless you want to play no defense Nellie Ball and lose a lot of high scoring games.
Posted on 11/30/10 at 1:07 pm to CP3forMVP
For a first year head coach I couldn't have asked for more. shite, the Hornets are doing better than the Heat with 3 of the leagues best players. Just goes to show how much of a difference it makes when you have a players coach like Williams.
Posted on 11/30/10 at 1:56 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Can't run unless you get stops first. The slow pace is the Hornets trying to make the most of every half court possession and getting the best shot. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you want to avoid getting into half court sets you have to stop the team on defense to be able to run. As unintuitive as it sounds, up tempo basketball has very little to do with your offensive philosophy unless you want to play no defense Nellie Ball and lose a lot of high scoring games.
The Hornets are 1st in opponents per game and 4th in opponent field goal percentage. The Hornets are getting stops.
More pace=more points. Would you rather get into a 5 on 5 game or a 3 on 2 game? The Hornets are getting stops and having a chance to run, but aren't taking advantage.
Posted on 11/30/10 at 3:13 pm to CP3forMVP
Marcus!
Posted on 11/30/10 at 3:34 pm to CP3forMVP
More pace also equals more points for the other team.
Posted on 11/30/10 at 3:53 pm to TotesMcGotes
yes, lets speed the game up and throw in more turnovers for the opposing team... smh, why people post?? we aren't the OKC blunders or GSW
Posted on 11/30/10 at 8:17 pm to JayJay2
quote:
yes, lets speed the game up and throw in more turnovers for the opposing team... smh, why people post?? we aren't the OKC blunders or GSW
What???
We have ranked near the bottom of the league every week this season in pace with CHRIS PAUL as our point guard. How can that possibly not bother you?
Here are the top 10 in pace, and where they rank in TO's:
Pace- TO's
1- Minnesota- 28th
2- New York- 25th
3- Denver- 4th
4- Houston- 19th
5- Golden State- 16th
6- Lakers- 1st
7- Phoenix- 7th
8- San Antonio- 10th
9- Memphis- 22nd
10- Chicago- 20th
What does that tell you? Because it tells me that the good teams in the league can play a uptempo pace and keep the to's down. We're playing one of the slowest paces in the league, and 4 of the top 10 teams (or 40%) have less to's per game than we do. For good teams, more tempo does NOT equal more turnovers.
We also don't have players to play in a halfcourt game, are you comfortable with the outside shooting of Belinelli and Ariza along with the post game of West and Okafor? I sure as hell am not.
BTW, do you have something against the Thunder? Because they are 14th in pace and 9th in turnovers, both better numbers than we are posting. Heck, Golden State is 5th in pace and are averaging less than one more turnover per game than we are.
This post was edited on 11/30/10 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 11/30/10 at 8:25 pm to CP3forMVP
I guess I don't understand what "pace" means then.. 
Posted on 11/30/10 at 8:28 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
We also don't have players to play in a halfcourt game, are you comfortable with the outside shooting of Belinelli and Ariza along with the post game of West and Okafor? I sure as hell am not.
Yeah we do, and yeah I'm comfortable with what we have, we're a half court team. Who cares what you're comfortable with, this is what works for us.
quote:
BTW, do you have something against the Thunder?
Yes, I hate every team in the NBA other than the Hornets.
I guess I don't understand what "pace" means then..
Posted on 11/30/10 at 9:19 pm to JayJay2
quote:
Yeah we do, and yeah I'm comfortable with what we have, we're a half court team. Who cares what you're comfortable with, this is what works for us.
We aren't anywhere near a halfcourt team. The Spurs can play in the halfcourt. Boston can play in the halfcourt. The Bulls can play in the halfcourt. The Lakers can play in the halfcourt. The Hornets are far from a halfcourt team.
Halfcourt teams need to be able to have three things. Inside post players, outside shooters, and they need to be able to move without the ball.
Do the Hornets have a inside presence? We have David, but will anyone call him a dominate force downlow? Sometimes he looks really good, but he also looks really bad at times. Emeka, well...We have a bunch of pick and pop/roll bigs, and the only one who can perform that effectively is West.
Do the Hornets have outside shooters? We're something like 5th in percentage from beyond the arc, but who really buys into that? We traded our best outside shooter. Bellinelli can hit the outside shot, but most of his made threes come in transition. CP can hit the outside shot, but doesn't pull the trigger to often. Ariza can hit it on occasion, but I wouldn't call him a spot up shooter by any means. Thornton can hit the outside shot, but he doesn't recieve too many minutes. Willie Green is only shooting 31% from three. I'd have to say no, we don't have outside shooters.
Can we move without the ball? I keep hearing about how much we're standing around on offense, especially in the 4th. We average 21 assists per game, and nearly half come from CP alone. I don't see very much movement on offense. We throw it into West, and if he passes back out it's just so he can get better position, and it's coming right back to him. I don't think I've ever seen Emeka pass it back out. Bottom line, no the Hornets do not move well without the ball. The only guy who we have who consistently moves without the ball is Belinelli.
I'm not sure what your watching, but the Hornets are far from a halfcourt team. We TRY and be a halfcourt team, and that is why we have had so many problems in the fourth. Guys get lazy and just stand around, and if we throw it into the post it's like throwing the ball into a blackhole. Again, we try, but we do not execute it particulary well. We're often left hoping someone could make a one on one play.
I'm not asking us to play at the fastest pace in the NBA (aka have the most posessions), but speeding up the pace (say top 15) would work wonders for us.
This post was edited on 11/30/10 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 12/1/10 at 8:29 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
We're something like 5th in percentage from beyond the arc, but who really buys into that?
You are who your record says you are. We have several really good 3 point shooters...and several slightly bad ones
If West would start kicking it out to Belinelli for 3 he could take some pressure off of himself. The team has enoough shooters to run the pick and roll/pop. quote:
Can we move without the ball?
Yes. That's the frustrating thing, this team is pretty good when it does, I don't understand why the motion stops. CP3 can thread the needle, he just needs guys moving to get open.
quote:
Guys get lazy and just stand around, and if we throw it into the post it's like throwing the ball into a blackhole.
But that's all an effort/mental thing. You're arguing as if we don't have the talent to have a successful half court attack when we clearly do.
quote:
but speeding up the pace (say top 15) would work wonders for us.
Please elaborate on how this is different than now? One of the reasons we are getting more stops this year is because our guards are staying in for rebounds instead of running out. It's hard to run with the defense in front of you. I don't think anyone here wants to keep seeing the West blackhole, but the only changes I can really see the team making is putting more effort into off ball movement with Belinelli and Ariza.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 9:00 am to TigerinATL
Paul has acknowledged they haven't pushed the ball in the fourth quarter like they should. He accepts the blame. Problem is, teams are putting two guys (usually including a big) on Paul after her crosses midcourt. Ideally, you'd have someone with a deadly shot waiting for a kickout in order to put an end to that shite.
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