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Started By
Message
Updated: Full auto lower laws.. Answer from ATF on page 2
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:44 pm
So my buddy has a full auto lower M16. Can he swap that lower around to whatever upper he wants ie 300 black upper, 300 black upper sbr granedbhe has a tax stamp for that upper as well, 223 upper he originally bought it with. I just don't know the legality of swapping around the lower.
This post was edited on 11/1/16 at 9:36 am
1
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:47 pm to Timmayy
Lower is the firearm
Can put whatever upper he wants on it as long as lower is also registered for SBR. May not even need SBR stamp if MG covers short barrel as well.
Prop will be able to answer this best
Can put whatever upper he wants on it as long as lower is also registered for SBR. May not even need SBR stamp if MG covers short barrel as well.
Prop will be able to answer this best
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:47 pm to CP3
MG covers SBR. No need for another stamp. He can switch around uppers as much as he wants.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:48 pm to ChatRabbit77
Thought that was the case, but wasn't 100% positive
Posted on 10/31/16 at 6:01 pm to ChatRabbit77
quote:
MG covers SBR. No need for another stamp. He can switch around uppers as much as he wants.
Correct, machine gun trumps everything.
OP, A firearm cannot be a machine gun if it is an SBR and vice versa. The firearm 'Types' or classifications are mutually exclusive.
ETA: I'm assuming he has an actual full auto lower and not a DIAS as that may complicate things a little.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 6:45 pm to Propagandalf
All I know is that he has a full auto and when I saw him firing it it was sitting on an sbr. How does that work though could he technically get in trouble if he put the full auto lower on another one of his uppers and had the sbr upper from the machine gun just sitting around but since he only had a tax stamp for the machine gun lower would it be a problem that he has an assembled sbr upper with no tax stamp for it
Posted on 10/31/16 at 7:51 pm to Timmayy
No.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 7:53 pm to Timmayy
Uppers are not firearms and therefore cannot be an SBR, MG, rifle, etc. The piece that is a firearm is the lower.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 8:48 pm to Propagandalf
The part where it starts getting confusing is where the law states
"A FFL (Type-7 or Type-10) who pays the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) may possess parts required to assemble NFA firearms. A non-licensee or FFL who has not paid the SOT is required to register any NFA firearm via an ATF Form 1 LINK (5320.1) prior to acquisition of the parts required to assemble such firearm."
The prior to acquisition of pets required to assemble such firearm is where it gets tricky.
Because I am in the process of waiting to get my tax stamp back for my personal sbr but I'm holding off on purchasing the barrel because that is the only piece that could be linked to an sbr and since I don't have a pistol lower I couldn't claim it's for that.
"A FFL (Type-7 or Type-10) who pays the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) may possess parts required to assemble NFA firearms. A non-licensee or FFL who has not paid the SOT is required to register any NFA firearm via an ATF Form 1 LINK (5320.1) prior to acquisition of the parts required to assemble such firearm."
The prior to acquisition of pets required to assemble such firearm is where it gets tricky.
Because I am in the process of waiting to get my tax stamp back for my personal sbr but I'm holding off on purchasing the barrel because that is the only piece that could be linked to an sbr and since I don't have a pistol lower I couldn't claim it's for that.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:12 pm to Timmayy
I could be wrong, but I think you could have a truck load of uppers you'd use on and SBR or pistol and dont have to register anything.
The upper doesn't matter. It's all about the lower.
The upper doesn't matter. It's all about the lower.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:13 pm to Propagandalf
In other words when he goes to take the sbr upper off of his full auto lower and puts the full auto lower on one of his full length uppers laying around. Now he has a short barrel upper not parked to anything and a standard lower that was the donor for the full length upper. In the eye she of the law would he be in trouble. Even though the odds of such a conviction are low I'm interested
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:15 pm to Timmayy
Low odds? Try finding just one case of constructive intent ever prosecuted as a standalone case.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:17 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
I know but appease me. Trust me you make yourself sound like a real arse when trying to skimp around laws. Especially gun laws.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 9:18 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:17 pm to Timmayy
If they aren't mated together I don't see the issue. They are just spare parts at that point.
Again I'm by no means an expert.
Again I'm by no means an expert.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:18 pm to Timmayy
A 10.5 inch barrel is not an NFA part. That barrel could be used to assemble a lot of different types of firearms, one being a pistol. Just because you do not yet have a pistol lower or an approved stamp for your SBR lower does not make you guilty of trying to break the law or establish intent to do so. Unless the ATF or LEO routinely raids your house you have nothing to worry about. And even if they did raid your house that charge would not stick unless you did something to prove intent to manufacture and unregistered NFA item. If they tearing up your house you probably have way bigger issues to worry about than a 10.5 upper for an SBR you are waiting for approval to assemble. You over estimate the ATF's ambition and man power.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:19 pm to Jj283
That's what I e always thought until I saw the part about having the pieces to make NRA item without tax stamp law
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:23 pm to Timmayy
NFA, but yeah.
One stamp, as many uppers as you want. Don't care if you have two lowers or not. It's really pretty simple..
One stamp, as many uppers as you want. Don't care if you have two lowers or not. It's really pretty simple..
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:25 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
Except that you are ignoring the law I quoted.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:26 pm to Timmayy
You're thinking constructive possession
If you have a MG or even an SBR lower, I wouldn't worry about having loose SBR uppers laying around.
If you have a MG or even an SBR lower, I wouldn't worry about having loose SBR uppers laying around.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 9:26 pm to Timmayy
An upper is not a firearm. Therefore is does not fall under the ATF's jurisdiction. An unregistered DIAS, unregistered stripped lower with 3rd pin hole drilled, a shoe lace. These are things the ATF has said were unregistered machine guns. A 10.5 upper is not a SBR. I know it's confusing, but this is the government. I have a shop with 65 10.5 inch barrels in storage and a lot of other AR parts. I am not concerned with me breaking the law and the ATF is allowed to, and will every 3 years, stop by and go through my inventory.
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