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Stainless Steel AR Barrels
Posted on 12/5/16 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 12/5/16 at 10:36 pm
AR baws, what's your pro and con list on SS barrels? Looking at one, but not sure if I will pull the trigger.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 11:15 pm to JGood
SS v 4150 nitride or chrome lined as far as the AR platform is concerned.
CONS: if not lined or treated SS bbls will wear out substantially faster.
PROS: None
CONS: if not lined or treated SS bbls will wear out substantially faster.
PROS: None
Posted on 12/5/16 at 11:25 pm to Propagandalf
10-4. I've seen them on a few guns, but never thought of buying one until I was given the chance today. Preciate the info.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:12 am to Propagandalf
The average shooter will never notice the difference in wear rate. HC or nitrided barrels never live up to the durability claims and the vast majority won't even meet mil-spec testing requirements (yes, that even includes GI rifles already purchased under contract). A professional, skilled shooter might notice the groups spreading after a few thousand rounds and comparing notes in well kept shooting logs. That same SS barrel could have thousands of rounds of life left in it for anyone here. Some will claim that an untreated SS barrel will be more accurate due to the bore being more consistent without plating (the same would hold true for a plain carbon steel barrel too) and that might be true but that is also entirely dependant on who made the barrel, how it was installed, and who's shooting it. If you look at NM AR's today you will almost universally see heavy SS barrels. Something to be said aside from accuracy and consistency is that SS tends to resist throat and gas port erosion somewhat better at the low firing rates of competitive distance shooters. Chrome lined barrels and similar will erode quickly at the chamber throat and gas port then settle in, what's left behind is a bore surface in those areas that looks like cracked mud in a dried puddle as the softer base steel is burned away around microscopic cracks in the plating.
This post was edited on 12/6/16 at 2:20 am
Posted on 12/6/16 at 7:08 am to JGood
From a manufacturing perspective the stainless steel used in rifle barrels are easier to machine than Chromoly steel which leads to better tolerance control and smoother bores. The stainless alloys are also more homogeneous than their high carbon brothers which gives you a more even surface treatment and yet again allows for a smother bore. None of these material features really have much bearing for us every day Joes and our AR15's. But like Clames said that's the reason those National Match guys use stainless. A Nitrided/Melonite barrel will be more corrosion resistance and will not throat erode as quickly. I wouldn't want stainless on a high volume mag dumper. If I can get a much better deal on a setup I want with a stainless barrel v. nitride or chrome lines I *might* go with a stainless then. The only real reason I can think of to get stainless over anything else is that you like the way it looks. When I built my $440 "how cheap can I build an AR" rifle I went with stainless specifically for the aesthetics. knowing the drawbacks. Plus it was $69 which worked towards the how cheap can I build it angle of the build.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:29 am to Propagandalf
Will stainless barrels sustain a high rate of fire, compared to a USGI chrome lined bore and chamber barrel?
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:38 am to JGood
I don't really do mag dumps anymore.
I use stainless barrels because I like to shoot little groups.
Barrel life may be less, but of course that depends on what your definition of acceptable accuracy is. 1 or 2 moa may be acceptable to you, but for a competition shooter its way past time to pull that barrel. It may very well have a couple thousand rounds left for a weekend/recreational shooter.
All good info above. Decide what you want your rifle to do and then pick the parts.
Also, Clames brought up a good point about barrel makers. Who makes the barrel(stainless) can impact performance. Wilson stainless barrels will work for most, but they are not the quality or Bartlein or Kreiger.
I use stainless barrels because I like to shoot little groups.
Barrel life may be less, but of course that depends on what your definition of acceptable accuracy is. 1 or 2 moa may be acceptable to you, but for a competition shooter its way past time to pull that barrel. It may very well have a couple thousand rounds left for a weekend/recreational shooter.
All good info above. Decide what you want your rifle to do and then pick the parts.
Also, Clames brought up a good point about barrel makers. Who makes the barrel(stainless) can impact performance. Wilson stainless barrels will work for most, but they are not the quality or Bartlein or Kreiger.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:40 am to Sancho Panza
quote:
Will stainless barrels sustain a high rate of fire, compared to a USGI chrome lined bore and chamber barrel?
You shooting full auto?
I don't really do mag dumps, but the stainless barrels I've used have done fine. 20 rounds dumped and then a 30 minute break isn't really what in would call a high rate of fire though.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:59 am to kengel2
No full auto; but, I do require the ability to sustain a high rate of fire, just in case.
One disadvantage of stainless is that they don't dissipate heat quickly enough to sustain 12-15 rounds a minute.
One disadvantage of stainless is that they don't dissipate heat quickly enough to sustain 12-15 rounds a minute.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 9:16 am to JGood
I have this one on my build Odin Works
I have put a lot of rounds through it. I always had a red dot so never got to really test the accuracy. Just put a Leupold on it and shot 20 rounds. It groups very well. Didn't measure so I can't say but I was using 55 gr. cheap ammo. A buddy has the same barrel on a Ranger Proof custom build. I have no idea the pro's and con's of SS . I just went with what my buddy who built mine said to go with.
I have put a lot of rounds through it. I always had a red dot so never got to really test the accuracy. Just put a Leupold on it and shot 20 rounds. It groups very well. Didn't measure so I can't say but I was using 55 gr. cheap ammo. A buddy has the same barrel on a Ranger Proof custom build. I have no idea the pro's and con's of SS . I just went with what my buddy who built mine said to go with.
This post was edited on 12/6/16 at 9:17 am
Posted on 12/6/16 at 9:18 am to JGood
It's more accurate than chrome lined.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 9:22 am to saintsfan1977
quote:
It's more accurate than chrome lined.
The material has the properties which would enable it to be manufactured to a greater tolerance and consistency and therefor greater accuracy than chrome lined. Doesn't necessarily mean it has been manufactured to be more accurate.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 9:34 am to Sancho Panza
Id think heat dissipation has more to do with barrel contour and surface area than material.
Doesn't seem like accuracy is very high on the priority list. Stainless probably isn't the right choice here.
And FWIW just like the others said, it doesn't mean the other barrels can't be accurate. More than likely their accuracy will be more than acceptable to recreational shooters.
Doesn't seem like accuracy is very high on the priority list. Stainless probably isn't the right choice here.
And FWIW just like the others said, it doesn't mean the other barrels can't be accurate. More than likely their accuracy will be more than acceptable to recreational shooters.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 9:46 am to kengel2
I'm sure most would agree, accuracy is much more dependent on the shooter.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 11:46 am to Sancho Panza
Thanks for all the info baws. I doubt I'm going to go with the stainless. I'm just starting to get into ARs now that I'm moving up from broke college baw to 'has a good internship and almost graduated' baw so all the info is useful.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 12:20 pm to JGood
Unless you're doing some serious competition shooting or long range hunting a SS barrell is pointless.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 12:47 pm to JGood
Buy one of the PSA Premium Rifle Kits, for a starter.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:28 pm to Clames
Correct, accuracy comes down to the barrel making process itself, not the host material. I said "as far as the AR platform is concerned" because AR15s are modeled after the M16/M4, which is a fighting rifle, not a benchrest gun meant to shoot sub .25 MOA. Yes, there are ARs built to be shot small group competitively, if that is what the OP is doing go ahead an throw a quality SS barrel on it. IMO, An AR that shoots MOA is more than accurate enough.
You are correct in that a SS barrel will resist erosion better than unlined or untreated 4000 steel, but by ensuring your barrel is CL or Nitrided this advantage swings in the other direction. A 4150 barrel that is Nitrided (from a reputable manufacturer) will last longer than SS, have the same accuracy potential since they both lack the variability/inconsistency of a lining, and be more corrosion resistant. You also need to be mindful of which SS you choose as each has it's downfall you don't find in 4000 steel, most notably the inclusion of sulfur that form sulfide stringers which combined with bad tempering can cause catastrophic failures. Not a wide spread problem, but it was in 2004 if you bought a Sako/Tikka with a stainless barrel. Now you don't find this sulfur issue in 410 like you do in 416, but 410 is still subject to temper embrittlement in order to make it 'free machining'. Agian, if you got the right manufacturer doing it, it'll probably be OK. But this is why I would not recommend buying a 'budget' (read corners and QC cut) SS barrel for any rifle. And because of the lack of advantage for SS barrels in the AR15 platform I would not recommend them there as well.
You are correct in that a SS barrel will resist erosion better than unlined or untreated 4000 steel, but by ensuring your barrel is CL or Nitrided this advantage swings in the other direction. A 4150 barrel that is Nitrided (from a reputable manufacturer) will last longer than SS, have the same accuracy potential since they both lack the variability/inconsistency of a lining, and be more corrosion resistant. You also need to be mindful of which SS you choose as each has it's downfall you don't find in 4000 steel, most notably the inclusion of sulfur that form sulfide stringers which combined with bad tempering can cause catastrophic failures. Not a wide spread problem, but it was in 2004 if you bought a Sako/Tikka with a stainless barrel. Now you don't find this sulfur issue in 410 like you do in 416, but 410 is still subject to temper embrittlement in order to make it 'free machining'. Agian, if you got the right manufacturer doing it, it'll probably be OK. But this is why I would not recommend buying a 'budget' (read corners and QC cut) SS barrel for any rifle. And because of the lack of advantage for SS barrels in the AR15 platform I would not recommend them there as well.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 3:09 pm to DeoreDX
Nice rifle! I would be. Interested to know where you bought your components for that build. I use Palmetto State, great price, and most of the stuff is coming from FN, or so I am told. That said, I love FN products! Semper Fi!
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