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Southpaw Looking for First Pistol

Posted on 9/13/15 at 7:10 pm
Posted by FearTheFish
Member since Dec 2007
3759 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 7:10 pm
Looking to purchase a first pistol and I'm a lefty. Biggest issue I have found is the slide release.

I've been searching around and shooting several, but I've narrowed my search down thus far to two options:

1. Beretta Px4 sub compact
2. S&W M&P9

Main purpose: home defense, conceal carry (eventually)

Pros/Cons to each? Any feedback and/or advice welcome.

ETA: narrowing down to these two mainly because of the ambidextrous nature of them.
This post was edited on 9/13/15 at 7:11 pm
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43030 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 7:21 pm to
As much as it gets talked about here, the PPQ is something you should look at. You can get a regular mag release (M2), or a paddle one that is ambi (M1).
Posted by LSUlefty
Youngsville, LA
Member since Dec 2007
26453 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 7:22 pm to
H&K P2000SK has a slide release on both side.
Posted by A_bear
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2013
1965 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 7:33 pm to
I'm left handed and shoot the m&p9. I love it.
Posted by FearTheFish
Member since Dec 2007
3759 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

H&K P2000SK


I was also looking at an H&K VP9, but they're nearly impossible to find.

I'll have to look in to the P2000. Haven't done much research on that one yet. Thanks for the suggestion!
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
13882 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 9:16 pm to
Lefty here. PPQ M1 with the paddle mag release on both sides. It also has slide stop levers on both sides that you can actually reach. I couldn't reach the tiny button on the M&P.
HK VP9 is also a good choice
Posted by FearTheFish
Member since Dec 2007
3759 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 9:30 pm to
quote:

I couldn't reach the tiny button on the M&P.


That was my initial reaction on the M&P as well, which is why I initially leaned towards the Beretta.

Not sure how accurate this is, but I have a buddy of mine who is a former police marksman trainer and he said the Beretta has issue with the trigger being too soft (too many "accidental misfires"). Not sure how much truth there is to that though.
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
13882 posts
Posted on 9/13/15 at 10:57 pm to
I think the safety on the Px4 is also a decocker that puts the pistol trigger in double action. In double action, you'd get a longer and heavier trigger pull that would be difficult to accidentally discharge.

Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 6:40 am to
Welcome to the OB.

quote:

Main purpose: home defense, conceal carry (eventually)


Here you have a bit of a dichotomy. For a home defense setup, it's hard to beat a full sized handgun. But for concealed carry, a full sized handgun may eventually become too much for you to want to carry. Since you're iffy on the sizes, I'll quote a bookmarked thread I made recently about sizes (warning: TL;DR):

So with handguns (in this case 9mm) I see about 5 different sizes. I'll list them in descending order:

1. Extended slide/competition length (barrel over 4.5"; full sized frame)
2. Full sized (barrel 4.25"-4.5"; full sized frame)
3. Mid sized (Barrel 4"; full sized frame)
4. Compact (Barrel 3.5"; shortened grip)
5. Subcompact single stack (Barrel 3"-3.5"; shortened grip; single stack magazine)

Where this differs slightly is with 1911s. You have:

1. Government (5" barrel; full sized frame)
2. Commander (4.25" barrel; full sized frame)
3. Hybrid (4.25" barrel; shortened frame)
4. Officer (3.5" barrel; shortened frame)

There will obviously be some variation in your polymer pistol sizes, but for the most part I would say those 5 categories are the main ones. Some companies will blur the lines of sizes (like the Beretta PX4 "compact" and the Springfield XD "subcompact") that will generally fit in a different category. The PX4 compact is more of a midsized than a compact and the Springfield XD subcompact is really more of a compact. You have to look at the specs or hold them to notice this so it's good to feel the guns before purchasing.

Now if you think you MAY carry the gun that would mean you should stick with something mid sized or smaller. Remember, if you don't plan on carrying the gun, it's always smarter to get a full sized because of its numerous advantages over a compact or subcompact gun:

1. Longer grip (which also gives...)
2. Higher magazine capacity
3. Longer sight radius
4. Less felt recoil (because of the weight)
5. Higher muzzle velocity (from the longer barrel)

The only place that a full sized gun loses out on in terms of carry is weight and size. That's pretty much it. A full sized gun will almost always be more shootable than its compact counterpart.

Full sized guns can be concealed and there are some people that do it with relative ease. But generally, a full sized gun will start to be left at home. While it gives you the highest capacity and the highest potential to put accurate shots on target, it isn't as easy to tote around as a compact. Some popular full sized polymer striker-fired guns are:

S&W M&P
Springfield XD
Glock 17
Ruger SR9
FN FNS9

The very popular Glock 19 fits in the mid sized category. It has a slightly shortened frame compared to a full sized but still is long enough to get all your fingers on the grip. Some other mid sized guns are:

Walther PPQ
HK VP9

Compact pistols have a shortened grip for your ring and middle finger with the pinky finger dangling because it is less likely to print when carried concealed. But with the shortened frame comes less control-ability. There is always a tradeoff. Most full sized guns have a compact counterpart so I won't list any here.

The upside of compact pistols are that they can accept a full sized magazine of their full sized counterparts. So if you think you might carry the gun but it may spend most of the time stored away, I usually suggest this size as a compromise since you can load the full sized mag or the shortened mag. Some guns like the Ruger SR9c come with both a full sized magazine and a shortened magazine. It is great for this role.

Subcompact single stack guns I usually only suggest if you are guaranteed to carry it. They have a very thin profile but a lower magazine capacity since the magazine is thinner. The upside of these guns is that they virtually disappear when carried and carry very comfortably.

So to sum up, if you don't plan on carrying it, I would suggest a full sized gun regardless if it's for your house or your car. If you think you may carry it sometimes or already have a dedicated single stack carry gun, I'd suggest the compact. You can always have more than one gun in a carry rotation. And finally if you know you'll carry it, I would get a single stack subcompact.


quote:

Not sure how accurate this is, but I have a buddy of mine who is a former police marksman trainer and he said the Beretta has issue with the trigger being too soft (too many "accidental misfires"). Not sure how much truth there is to that though.


I'm not sure what exactly your friend is talking about here. The trigger mechanism for the PX4 is double-action/single-action and the M&P is double-action only, as are pretty much all polymer striker-fired guns.

The tricky part about the PX4 is two-fold.

1. Slide-mounted safety/decocker
2. DA/SA trigger

The M&P is a much more simple design and does not require the extra training involved for deactivating a manual safety. Having a gun without a safety may make you nervous but handguns are built to be holstered. Any time the trigger is protected, it is physically impossible to pull the trigger. It is much simpler for a defensive handgun - point and pull the trigger.

As for a gun with an ambidextrous slide release, of the ones listed, I would suggest the M&P, PPQ, or VP9. And if you want one that can possibly be dual-purpose I would suggest the M&P9 compact.



Hope this wasn't too much for you to digest.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89542 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 7:47 am to
quote:

Hope this wasn't too much for you to digest.


Bapple is always very thorough and I agree with much of his analysis.

However, what is missing from this is - there is a large contigent of lefties who believe they have an advantage on the most common fire control systems - particularly actuating the magazine release with the trigger finger (or middle finger, as necessary) and they train to do this without rotating the firearm (which is an almost unavoidable bad habit for a righty using the thumb).

Many (not all) leftys will recommend new lefty shooters to just train to operate standard controls as a left-handed shooter. In an emergency situation, one is never guaranteed ambidextrous controls or a customized set up.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 7:49 am
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 8:11 am to
quote:

Ace Midnight


Solid points.

In regards to an ambi mag release, I agree entirely. I even find myself using the left-side release on guns with ambidextrous mag releases and I'm a righty. I think it's a shorter distance to travel than to extend your thumb across the grip. But either way works fine.

As for the slide release it can be a bit trickier. The only time I really use the slide release is if I am safety checking the gun or if I am clearing a malfunction. Besides that, I use the universal motion for getting the gun back in action, even with the slide locked - racking the slide.
Posted by Easternrio
Member since May 2014
3755 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 8:32 am to
Glock 19
Posted by FearTheFish
Member since Dec 2007
3759 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:01 pm to
Wow. Thank you VERY much for that info. I'm going to read over it a few time to ensure I digest everything, so I'll probably post again later with questions.

quote:

there is a large contigent of lefties who believe they have an advantage on the most common fire control systems - particularly actuating the magazine release with the trigger finger (or middle finger, as necessary) and they train to do this without rotating the firearm


So far that is my experience, and I have no issue with a "right handed" mag release; my major concern at this point is being stuck in an emergency situation and having an issue with the slide release.

I do know that I will and should eventually be trained to operate a "solely right handed" weapon, but being as this is my first pistol to own and operate, I figure I'll spring for something that fits me at the present and I can always train and practice on something else as time moves on.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 2:02 pm
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
166301 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

Main purpose: home defense, conceal carry (eventually)


two totally different purposes. Buy a full size for home defense, if you ever decide to CC, then purchase a separate gun.
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
30792 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

my major concern at this point is being stuck in an emergency situation and having an issue with the slide release. 


Multiple ways to operate a slide one handed. Use a belt or shoe, you don't have to use the slide stop.

I'm a lefty and after going through a Springfield xd and xdm, hk usp, Beretta 92, 1911s, m&ps, etc etc I just stuck with my glock 19. Everything ambi is nice, but not necessary. For me the 19 is perfect. Had a 17 and sold it. For my situation the glock is perfect. My wife is issued a glock so she can use whatever pistol she picks up. Familiarity for me and her outweighs me being comfortable as a lefty.

Anyways. Get what you want and make sure to take a class or 2. I'm about to retake all the basic pistol classes again as it has been a couple years.
Posted by Glock17
Member since Oct 2007
22388 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:23 pm to
I'm a lefty as well and until the gen4 glocks hit the market I always hand guns set up for rightys. Once I got a got set up with a left handed mag release it took me little to no time to adjust and I haven't looked back
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
13882 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

slide release




Bap, come on brah.......

I cringe every time I see someone use the slide stop to release a slide.


This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 2:55 pm
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

Multiple ways to operate a slide one handed. Use a belt or shoe, you don't have to use the slide stop.


This is true but the worst malfunction you can imagine (double feed) requires use of the slide stop. Hopefully one will never be forced to use it, but you know how Murphy's law works...

quote:

Get what you want and make sure to take a class or 2. I'm about to retake all the basic pistol classes again as it has been a couple years.


+1

And when you book those class times let me know. I haven't taken a handgun course since February.

EDIT:

quote:

Shexter




To me they are exactly the same thing. I don't use it when releasing the slide anyway - I use an overhand rack every time so that I'm not fumbling with a different location and type of release on multiple guns.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 2:57 pm
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43030 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 4:14 pm to
We actually practiced FTF, FTE, and double feeds in one of the VATA classes I took. We also spent a little time racking the slide on different things we were wearing with both dominant and weak hands. That shite was hard
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 5:41 pm to
Why not use the slide stop?
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