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re: Pine tree farm. What are the pros and cons?
Posted on 9/26/16 at 12:47 pm to fishfighter
Posted on 9/26/16 at 12:47 pm to fishfighter
quote:the problem I've seen with cutting gum is they sprout via stump and roots like crazy. What does yours look like? They will out compete seed-borne red oaks all day every day and make gum thickets from one tree's roots and stump. I'm dealing with this issue now wondering how to counter-act before our next thinning, couple the gum with head-high palmetto and naturally regenerating red oak is a challenge. Only way I know to due it now is cut-stump treatment which would be costly. ANd the cut-stump is just a theory, I don't know if treating the stumps would kill the entire root system or not. Gum's pretty hearty and not worth a shite outside of redbirds and shite, and utilizing with a climbing stand.
Last time I had let them cut heavy due to way to much gum growth.
This post was edited on 9/26/16 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 9/26/16 at 1:16 pm to White Bear
Yes, some spots the gum came back heavy and others, oaks took over. That is one of the reasons of select cut every 40 years. Leaving behind oaks that the trunk is 20" at BH.
Posted on 9/26/16 at 1:16 pm to Pectus
< Family has a tree farm in N Louisiana
Posted on 9/26/16 at 1:31 pm to Pectus
Get soil samples!!!!
This is a long term investment, that has a lot of variables. Weather, pine Beatles, disease, ext... You can get hybrid trees planted that will help out in some of these areas, but they are more expensive in the beginning.
As others have said get with a forestry consultant. They are worth the money you spend.
This is a long term investment, that has a lot of variables. Weather, pine Beatles, disease, ext... You can get hybrid trees planted that will help out in some of these areas, but they are more expensive in the beginning.
As others have said get with a forestry consultant. They are worth the money you spend.
Posted on 9/26/16 at 1:42 pm to fishfighter
Get some growth vs yield tables from the LSU Forestry Dept. Pretty neat stuff to look at
Posted on 9/26/16 at 2:11 pm to Pectus
As others have said, going with a forestry consultant is a wise decision. If you are going to buy land that is already in pine, they will be a good source of information on the stand and how much it is worth.
If you are going to buy land that is natural and convert it to pine plantation, you will want something that drains well. Wet ground leads to poor pine production. Also, if you have any inkling that you will develop the land in the future for something other than timber, get that SOB delineated for wetlands. It will save you some headaches in the future, even if it is no longer valid at development. I've dealt with sites before that were not delineated, and they are a bitch (especially after harvest, and you are the one delineating it!!).
Also, a wetland delineation might give some insight into areas that will be lower producing. Again, pines, especially loblolly, don't like their feet to be too wet. I've worked for clients who decided they were not making enough money on pine and turned around and put 3000 acres back into bottomland hardwoods because it was too wet!
If you are going to buy land that is natural and convert it to pine plantation, you will want something that drains well. Wet ground leads to poor pine production. Also, if you have any inkling that you will develop the land in the future for something other than timber, get that SOB delineated for wetlands. It will save you some headaches in the future, even if it is no longer valid at development. I've dealt with sites before that were not delineated, and they are a bitch (especially after harvest, and you are the one delineating it!!).
Also, a wetland delineation might give some insight into areas that will be lower producing. Again, pines, especially loblolly, don't like their feet to be too wet. I've worked for clients who decided they were not making enough money on pine and turned around and put 3000 acres back into bottomland hardwoods because it was too wet!
Posted on 9/26/16 at 4:27 pm to Hammertime
quote:
Get some growth vs yield tables from the LSU Forestry Dept. Pretty neat stuff to look at
Thanks for the info. Would be better than contacting a forester
Posted on 9/26/16 at 4:47 pm to biggsc
Not better than getting with a certified forester, but it gives you an idea of what you're working with and towards. They can guide you on what you should do and when you should do it.
Forestry is pretty complicated stuff. Pine production is basically all computer modeled now. The biggest variable is the seedlings. Hardwoods can be kind of, sort of, barely, to an extent . Hardwood forestry is an art
Eta: You will not be able to find those graphs online. I was given them by my teachers, who got them from the feds, state, universities, and companies who have done bazillions of dollars worth of research. That's why they don't post them online. I'll check some old books to see if I can find an example of one or two. They are also site/region specific
Eh, can't find any. You're basically looking at density vs age on average dbh curves. There are some curves you keep it in between to be optimal for tree growth, and viola, you win.
I think that's how they went. That was so long ago. Wish I would've kept a few, but the guys at LSU will help you out. Let me know if you want a contact # for more info
Forestry is pretty complicated stuff. Pine production is basically all computer modeled now. The biggest variable is the seedlings. Hardwoods can be kind of, sort of, barely, to an extent . Hardwood forestry is an art
Eta: You will not be able to find those graphs online. I was given them by my teachers, who got them from the feds, state, universities, and companies who have done bazillions of dollars worth of research. That's why they don't post them online. I'll check some old books to see if I can find an example of one or two. They are also site/region specific
Eh, can't find any. You're basically looking at density vs age on average dbh curves. There are some curves you keep it in between to be optimal for tree growth, and viola, you win.
I think that's how they went. That was so long ago. Wish I would've kept a few, but the guys at LSU will help you out. Let me know if you want a contact # for more info
This post was edited on 9/26/16 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 9/26/16 at 6:38 pm to Hammertime
Crap, forgot about that.
Well I would say that a forester is more trusted than a logger.
Well I would say that a forester is more trusted than a logger.
This post was edited on 9/26/16 at 6:54 pm
Posted on 9/26/16 at 6:54 pm to Hammertime
Have been looking at getting a chunk of property, ideally one with timber that can be harvested to offset the cost. However after finding some and doing some research ive discovered that stt parish are nazis and make it damn near impossible to have timber land. If its off a Parish road you can tack on some serious extra money to do anything with it, including development.
Posted on 9/26/16 at 7:00 pm to GREENHEAD22
National Land Realty or Land Watch can help with that
Posted on 9/26/16 at 7:13 pm to biggsc
How can the help with parish rules/laws? I am all ears if someone knows how to get around their bs rules. Bonding of roads is the big one.
Posted on 9/26/16 at 7:16 pm to GREENHEAD22
They would people you could email for more information for the different parishes
Posted on 9/26/16 at 7:22 pm to biggsc
STT = St. Tammany parish. Not worried about other parishes, they dont have all the crazy rules.
Posted on 9/26/16 at 8:11 pm to GREENHEAD22
Simple, don't buy land inside and be forced to support a communist parish. Property tax would likely make for a negative investment.
Oh, and hire a consulting Forster not a wood dealer or consultant slash wood dealer. There's a huge difference.
Oh, and hire a consulting Forster not a wood dealer or consultant slash wood dealer. There's a huge difference.
This post was edited on 9/26/16 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 9/26/16 at 8:33 pm to Pectus
Pine is in the gutter, beyond cheap, tons planted and mature, paper being phased out
Posted on 9/26/16 at 8:59 pm to Strannix
They've shut down a lot of paper mills in the last few years.
I know three foresters, all of whom have left the business in the last few years.
I take those as major caution signs for getting in the pine biz.
I know three foresters, all of whom have left the business in the last few years.
I take those as major caution signs for getting in the pine biz.
Posted on 9/26/16 at 10:39 pm to Pectus
Part of our land is a "tree farm" we log every 15 - 20 years (actually it's two areas that are rotated). BTW, we don't plant chit... pine trees will just immediately start growing back everywhere. Same with most everyone's land around here. Some areas occasionally need a little thinning out occasionally though.
Posted on 9/27/16 at 11:25 am to GREENHEAD22
Posted on 9/27/16 at 12:37 pm to Pectus
if you have much land and want to make money and the trees aren't there yet you won't make any dollars you better off having a bird hunting preserve
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