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re: Was the end of the Roman Republic and start of the Empire good bad for them?
Posted on 11/18/16 at 9:11 pm to LoveThatMoney
Posted on 11/18/16 at 9:11 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
quote:This was not a frequent practice. Caesar most famously did it. Sulla and Marius laid the groundwork for it first. Caesar learned from them.
Agreed. And I think Pompey at least feinted at it or threatened it.
quote:
But after the defeat of Pyrrhus and certainly after the defeat of Carthage, the Republic was a shite show and desperately needed reform, to which its Senate families were extremely resistant.
And so they held on until it was impossible to save it and it, rightly, died
Yeah. The Senate and the really elitist old families that dominated it were pretty much assholes. But in a way you can't blame them. No group wants to give up power once they've acquired it and in their view they were Rome. But yeah, they did kind of limit the talent pool by their attitude plus they could never permanently tamp down the classes trying to move up into power.
2
Posted on 11/18/16 at 10:39 pm to Methuselah
Agreed. The degradation of a civilization is inevitable. Even Scipio Aemilianus, over a century before the actual fall of the Republic, wept for his country's eventual ruination after sacking Carthage, knowing that his actions against Rome's most bitter enemy presaged the very fate of his own people. But that realization doesn't keep the powerful from desperately clinging to their possessions and their power. Like all men, once a thing was in their grasp, whether earned, taken or given, they would not cede it willingly.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:07 pm to Methuselah
The Senate actually did not have as much power as everyone thinks. Many Senate decrees did not have the force of law whereas the People's Assembly did have more power and their decrees did have the force of law.
The problem was Marius and Cinna began taking more and more powers away from the Senate and giving them to the Assembly and Centuries. Then they took the Consul's imperium away from him which practically dared Sulla to march on Rome.
The real flaw in the Republic was the ability to criminalize the opposition. Caesar for example, did try to make peace with Pompey but was refused. He knew if he gave up his legions, he was going to be stripped of everything and probably proscribed. Proscription became a real threat in the last century. Giving up power meant one was at the mercy of his enemies, thus an incentive to fight more civil wars was created.
One reason I probably oppose prosecuting Hillary. She lost, she is done. Clinton and Nixon were impeached. For the last 15 years the party out of power has looked for ways to impeach the President. Its a slippery slope and one that doomed the Republic.
The problem was Marius and Cinna began taking more and more powers away from the Senate and giving them to the Assembly and Centuries. Then they took the Consul's imperium away from him which practically dared Sulla to march on Rome.
The real flaw in the Republic was the ability to criminalize the opposition. Caesar for example, did try to make peace with Pompey but was refused. He knew if he gave up his legions, he was going to be stripped of everything and probably proscribed. Proscription became a real threat in the last century. Giving up power meant one was at the mercy of his enemies, thus an incentive to fight more civil wars was created.
One reason I probably oppose prosecuting Hillary. She lost, she is done. Clinton and Nixon were impeached. For the last 15 years the party out of power has looked for ways to impeach the President. Its a slippery slope and one that doomed the Republic.
This post was edited on 11/19/16 at 5:46 am
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:12 pm to Methuselah
Common knowledge that the Roman Republic was eclipsed by an irresistible force-
(cue Techno beat)
The
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The
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:26 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
The real flaw in the Republican was the ability to criminalize the opposition. Caesar for example, did try to make peace with Pompey but was refused. He knew if he gave up his legions, he was going to be stripped of everything and probably proscribed. Proscription became a real threat in the last century. Giving up power meant one was at the mercy of his enemies, thus an incentive to fight more civil wars was created. One reason I probably oppose prosecuting Hillary. She lost, she is done. Clinton and Nixon were impeached. For the last 15 years the party out of power has looked for ways to impeach the President. Its a slippery slope and one that doomed the Republic.
Yeah. Once you start down that road it's tit for tat until one side or the other finally take ultimate control (until of course they too are eventually overthrown).
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:32 pm to TheIrishFro
quote:
They Byzantines tried to take much of the land back but it ultimately failed.
The plague of Justinian did in this effort.
This post was edited on 11/18/16 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:35 pm to kingbob
Wasn't it the Byzantines and their last Emperor who kind of had an almost stereotypical "one last stand" as the Ottomans or Arabs or whoever stormed and finally took their final stronghold?
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:37 pm to Methuselah
quote:
Wasn't it the Byzantines and their last Emperor who kind of had an almost stereotypical "one last stand" as the Ottomans or Arabs or whoever stormed and finally took their final stronghold?
Yep. He was done in by the invention of the Cannon. The walls of Constantinople were nearly impregnable to any kind of siege weaponry until the Turks brought gun powder.
Posted on 11/19/16 at 5:08 am to kingbob
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/4/23 at 7:44 am
Posted on 11/19/16 at 8:29 am to TheIrishFro
Would've eventually fallen. Empire was reduced to one city. No way to expand and no resources.
Posted on 11/19/16 at 9:26 am to prplhze2000
There were 4 factors that collapsed the East:
1. Losing Egypt to the Muslims cut the Byzantines off from their primary food and money supply
2. Losing Asia Minor to the Turks cut the Byzantines off from their land trade routes to Asia and their main source of cavalry
3. The west opening trade with the orient eliminated the Byzantines monopoly on trade with the far east
4. Gunpowder made Byzantine walls obsolete
1. Losing Egypt to the Muslims cut the Byzantines off from their primary food and money supply
2. Losing Asia Minor to the Turks cut the Byzantines off from their land trade routes to Asia and their main source of cavalry
3. The west opening trade with the orient eliminated the Byzantines monopoly on trade with the far east
4. Gunpowder made Byzantine walls obsolete
Posted on 11/19/16 at 9:51 am to prplhze2000
quote:
Clinton and Nixon were impeached.
Andrew Johnson and Clinton were impeached. Nixon resigned in lieu of being impeached. Johnson avoided conviction in the Senate by a single vote. Nixon would have been convicted. Clinton should have been convicted.
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