Started By
Message

re: Thoughts on the 2015 Ford Charger...err Mustang??

Posted on 11/8/14 at 11:28 am to
Posted by jordan21210
Member since Apr 2009
13393 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 11:28 am to
quote:

You going to discuss the point or just leave it hangin with a blank stare. It's not like we haven't been knowing this since uh, let me think, 1975.


Think about what you posted. Ford had to style the Mustang this way because all cars have to be a certain design in order to meet CAFE standards? Seriously?? Parts of that may be true...but you're insinuating that all cars will look the same in the future. Meanwhile, Dodge just updated the Challenger for 2015 and retained it's brick aerodynamics...and full size trucks are still a thing. I mean, I'm sure there is a certain design standard to be met for all cars going forward, but all cars aren't going to look the same...that's bogus
Posted by achenator
Member since Oct 2014
2954 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 12:19 pm to
Ford designed the new Mustang to be a world car. The design has to be small enough and aesthetically pleasing as well and meet front impact standards around the world.
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18871 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 5:26 pm to
quote:

Think about what you posted.

Back atcha. You said
quote:

...but you're insinuating that all cars will look the same in the future.

I "insinuated" nothing. Don't add to what I say. I said
quote:

Only one shape is the most aerodynamic.

Given a requirement for the size of the model (seating, cu. ft. needed to carry shite, etc.) there are is a minimal amount of leeway in the design to achieve the lowest drag. This improves mpg to help CAFE numbers. Therefore
quote:

Parts of that may be true...
Seriously!!
What I am saying is
quote:

All cars must stay close to this shape due to CAFE standards.

That is not in the future. That is right now and has been so for a very long time. Having come from an era where '59 Buicks were common, I see almost every car on the road today looks like just a minor few design cues from any other.
You bring up the Challenger(I owned a new 1970). Chrysler has stepped out of that cookie cutter cutter look farther than Camaro by designing the Charger and Challenger. I never addressed them because Chrysler is able to make up the difference in other cars in there lineup. It is a corp. average. Therefore
quote:

There is only so much the designers can do within these constraints.

still rings true.
Trucks and SUVs are a drag on the increasingly tightening averages.
Also I said
quote:

All cars look like some other car in one way or another.

I suppose you addressed this with
quote:

Challenger for 2015 and retained it's brick aerodynamics...and full size trucks are still a thing.

To this I point out that I did not mention trucks. Please don't add to my post.
The next part to discuss is
quote:

but all cars aren't going to look the same...that's bogus

This is more than insinuating. This is predicting. You killed this part of your sentence before you started it with
quote:

I'm sure there is a certain design standard to be met for all cars going forward,

Hell yes, there is. It's called CAFE and those requirements are scheduled to go up from the current 27.5 (23.5 truck) to 37.8 (27.8 truck) in 2016 and 54.5 mpg by 2025. Only so much can be done with mechanical advances and hybrids. Are you telling me that cars that look the same today won't look like each other in the future? Are you promising the Challengers won't fall to these standards? How far into the future are you thinking? And will trucks that you bring up not be a "thing"?

One more thing.
quote:

I don't need to. Quite a few independent drivers out there that are much more competent than those at Motor Trend and they know how to wring the real potential out of cars. Same thing with every Camaro and Mustang test, Motor Trend is always close to the bottom.

This entry that you ed to is 100% correct. Motor Trend has always been this way.


Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18871 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

Ford designed the new Mustang to be a world car. The design has to be small enough and aesthetically pleasing as well and meet front impact standards around the world.


Correct. I just rode in one. It's still very American. I'm glad they didn't cave completely.
Posted by jordan21210
Member since Apr 2009
13393 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 5:51 pm to
You said this:
quote:

Only one shape is the most aerodynamic. All cars must stay close to this shape due to CAFE standards. There is only so much the designers can do within these constraints. All cars look like some other car in one way or another.


This just isn't true. You can cut up what I said all you want...but what you said isn't true.

There is not only ONE aerodynamic shape (please show me what it is, if I'm wrong). All cars do NOT have to stay close to that shape provided the mechanics of the car can make up for the design to meet CAFE. Designers have always been constrained irregardless of CAFE. All cars DO NOT look like some other car (though you phrased it in a very "catch all" manner, likely so you couldn't "lose" any rebuttles) - my mom's Jaguar XF doesn't look like a Ford Fusion.

ETA: Maybe you need to elaborate on what you mean by "look the same"...bc I think that is where our differences lie.

quote:

This entry that you ed to is 100% correct. Motor Trend has always been this way.


I wasn't rolling eyes at the part about Motor Trend being a bottom tier publication (which I don't think it is, anyway), but good job making assumptions.

I was rolling eyes bc the guy I responded to is know-it-all in any car thread. The people at Motor Trend do it for a living, I'm sure they know what they're talking about. Regarding the article I referenced, it was a 1LE vs a GT, the 1LE is a pricier package and is more handling oriented, so it's not really a surprise MT liked it better vs. the Mustang.

This post was edited on 11/8/14 at 5:56 pm
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18871 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 6:24 pm to
You must be very young.
quote:

This just isn't true.

But it is. Swallow your pride because mommy's car is just a few design cues away from the Fusion. Now I see where you are coming from. Not much experience and using open ended observations and predictions. Of course the cookie cutter shape of today is the opinion of older people. Younger people never knew anything but styling cue differences. Drastic differences to you is same-old, same-old to me.
You say
quote:

Designers have always been constrained irregardless of CAFE.

is simply not true. Did you say "always"? CAFE hasn't "always" been either. Designers were only constrained by the people they worked for.

And now I see why you would say
quote:

.. about Motor Trend being a bottom tier publication (which I don't think it is, anyway),

since they will always chose mommy's Jag over any American made car. I don't like them because they didn't like my first car, a '65 intermediate with a big block, or my second car a '66 intermediate with a big block, my '70 Challenger and the list goes on. I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate the more recent 1000 h.p. car we built, our first 650 h.p. 2k lb. Cobra kit car or the one we are building right now. In fact they would under rate nearly every car I have owned. Their reported numbers usually differ from our experience as well as the numbers reported by other top tier rags. Bottom tier or top tier is not relevant. What is relevant is factual information which is where they drop the ball.

HEY, wanna come over and help me clean up the T bucket for tomorrow's veterans day parade? I'll take you for a ride. It ain't no Jag but a blown small block on a 1600 lb. car will entertain you for a few seconds.
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18871 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 9:26 pm to
1959 Buick randomly chosen when referenced in my first post.

1972 randomly selected aerodynamic cookie cutter car.

2014 Ford Fusion your referenced over 40 years of body shape development after the Pinto design.

2014 Jag XF that you claim "my mom's Jaguar XF doesn't look like a Ford Fusion."


For reference I said
quote:

Only one shape is the most aerodynamic. All cars must stay close to this shape due to CAFE standards. There is only so much the designers can do within these constraints. All cars look like some other car in one way or another. Get over it or go find yourself a 1959 Buick

Those pics are my proof of my post and using your own referenced cars in the last 2 pictures. It may come down to opinion but mine is the differences between the Buick and the Fusion is slightly more noticeable than the differences between the Ford and the Jag. Secondly, If I'm not paying close attention I wouldn't notice the Jag as standing out in a parking lot from the Fusion ... or a Nissan Altima.

:/pissinmatch:

This post was edited on 11/8/14 at 10:54 pm
Posted by tankyank13
NOLA
Member since Nov 2012
7723 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 9:37 pm to
Most cars built today have a short box trunk, ie the fusion and the jag in those photos
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18871 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 10:56 pm to
quote:

Most cars built today have a short box trunk, ie the fusion and the jag in those photos

But the trunk space in cars with IRS or front wheel drive is huge.
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
32105 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 11:14 pm to
It's a Ford, so it will probably fall apart in 75,000 miles.....but that's considerably better than any Chrysler product.

I say get one. It's a fantastic addition to any trailer park.
Posted by jordan21210
Member since Apr 2009
13393 posts
Posted on 11/8/14 at 11:56 pm to
quote:

Drastic differences to you is same-old, same-old to me.


^I'm thinking this...

Apparently looks to you and looks to me have different meanings. You should have said the shape of cars is the similar...not looks. Cars do not all look the same. Anyone can tell a Camry apart from a Mercedes E class...or a Chrysler 200 from a VW Passat. That being said, would you have argued the same thing 40+ years ago? Because by your standards, a 1970 Impala is similar in shape to a 1970 Galaxie 500...and that was before CAFE was enacted...so what's the reasoning for that?

quote:

Did you say "always"? CAFE hasn't "always" been either. Designers were only constrained by the people they worked for.


Yes, I said always...and you took it out of context. I didn't say it meaning CAFE has always been around...I know that it hasn't. Let's try to keep things in context.

quote:

since they will always chose mommy's Jag over any American made car. I don't like them because they didn't like my first car, a '65 intermediate with a big block, or my second car a '66 intermediate with a big block, my '70 Challenger and the list goes on. I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate the more recent 1000 h.p. car we built, our first 650 h.p. 2k lb. Cobra kit car or the one we are building right now. In fact they would under rate nearly every car I have owned. Their reported numbers usually differ from our experience as well as the numbers reported by other top tier rags. Bottom tier or top tier is not relevant. What is relevant is factual information which is where they drop the ball.


I used my mom's car as an example because I personally drive a truck which is not pertinent to this discussion...but thanks for being a condescending prick about it.

Anyway, so you admit you don't like MT because they bad mouthed/didn't like a car you owned and thought was good? That's just being biased. I'm a mopar guy and they bad mouth plenty of mopar/chrysler products...but I still remain objective when reading any review of any other vehicle. The writers of MT, and all other publications, do that for a living...I won't let them make my mind up for me, but I won't say they are wrong because they said something I didn't like about a vehicle I own. That being said, it certainly explains why you get so butthurt when a stranger challenges your opinion on something and rather than just have a discussion you'd rather resort to being arrogant and condescending.


ETA: Oh and regarding this tidbit...
quote:

since they will always chose mommy's Jag over any American made car


Motor Trend's Best Driver's Car of 2014 was the Camaro Z/28; and their 2014 Car of the Year was the Cadillac CTS.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 12:03 am
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18871 posts
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:25 am to
quote:

You should have said the shape of cars is the similar...not looks.

I said exactly what I meant and provided pictures to prove it. Compared to cars of yore those that you chose make my point. They are all of the cookie cutter cars with styling cue differences. They all stay right near that lowest cd shape. Thanks.
quote:

Because by your standards, a 1970 Impala is similar in shape to a 1970 Galaxie 500...

You add things into what other people say when you are face to face also??
quote:

Yes, I said always..

Uhhhh, what other meaning is there for "always"? Put periods of time in your remarks mebbe??
quote:

That being said, it certainly explains why you get so butthurt when a stranger challenges your opinion on something and rather than just have a discussion you'd rather resort to being arrogant and condescending.

"arrogant and condescending" and a "prick"?? .. yeah, to someone that challenged my statement without explanation. Just consider it deserved. Note to junior: I'm the one that has provided proof of point soooo thanks for being a dumbass that argues from the heart (not head) and can't recognize a person that could advance your car knowledge by untold numbers.
quote:

The writers of MT, and all other publications, do that for a living...

You've said similar before. You failed to read and understand something I said earlier. Slightly differently this time, MT has consistently shown over the years a bias toward European cars. As European and domestic have gotten more alike they may chose domestic. The fly in the ointment is THEIR DATA NEVER MATCHES OTHER PUBLICATION'S DATA .... AND THOSE GUYS DO IT FOR A LIVING TOO. Their data never matches ours either BUT ours matches other publications.
You have opinions but you have no facts, experience, history, etc. in the automotive industry. I'm really wasting my time because of the division in knowledge. Your life if totally in info from a rag and the cars you see on the highway. I did a brake job on a friends Chev. 2500 last night while watching the football game. I've done this kind of stuff for longer than you have been alive. Think next time before you call someone's post "bullshite" but can't back it up. Ask me nicely and you can help prep our Cobra body for paint. Now do you want me to school you on motorcycles? Ever rode a rotary engine bike??
first pageprev pagePage 4 of 4Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram