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Questions about buying pre-owned vehicles from a dealership
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:27 am
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:27 am
I've read the thread by Will Cover and how to get a great price on new cars and was wondering how much of that applies to buying pre-owned.
General questions:
Are there any non-biased car websites out there to get real cost information, official invoices, etc., new or used? I know True Car, Edmunds and even Consumer Reports are financially influenced by dealerships so they aren't fully truthful.
How do you find the factory to dealer rebate amounts on new cars?
How can I find out the time a car spends on the lot, new or used?
If you are a solid, tough negotiator, why would the dealership bother with you when they know some schlub is going to walk through the door and be willing to pay the invoice price or more?
Regarding pre-owned...
Is it possible to find the dealer cost for the used vehicle? If not can you ballpark the cost? If so, how?
Are there dealer holdbacks and other incentives paid to the dealer for a used car similar to how it is for a new car?
If you negotiated extremely well on a new car and got way below invoice and didn't pay the BS fees, could you potentially get the same price for that new car as you would for a certified pre-owned car because of the hidden money the dealership gets from the manufacturer on the new car when it's sold?
Thanks.
General questions:
Are there any non-biased car websites out there to get real cost information, official invoices, etc., new or used? I know True Car, Edmunds and even Consumer Reports are financially influenced by dealerships so they aren't fully truthful.
How do you find the factory to dealer rebate amounts on new cars?
How can I find out the time a car spends on the lot, new or used?
If you are a solid, tough negotiator, why would the dealership bother with you when they know some schlub is going to walk through the door and be willing to pay the invoice price or more?
Regarding pre-owned...
Is it possible to find the dealer cost for the used vehicle? If not can you ballpark the cost? If so, how?
Are there dealer holdbacks and other incentives paid to the dealer for a used car similar to how it is for a new car?
If you negotiated extremely well on a new car and got way below invoice and didn't pay the BS fees, could you potentially get the same price for that new car as you would for a certified pre-owned car because of the hidden money the dealership gets from the manufacturer on the new car when it's sold?
Thanks.
10
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:39 am to Jake88
quote:
Are there any non-biased car websites out there to get real cost information, official invoices, etc., new or used? I know True Car, Edmunds and even Consumer Reports are financially influenced by dealerships so they aren't fully truthful.
No , invoice is such an overused term and has no real meaning, if you want to know how much the dealership paid the MFR for the vehicle, good luck, only a few people are privy to that info and they keep it close to the vest
quote:
How do you find the factory to dealer rebate amounts on new cars?
google is your friend, pretty easy to find out
quote:
How can I find out the time a car spends on the lot, new or used
again, pretty hard but one way to get an idea is to look at the tires and find the mfr date on those (google to find out how) and that will give you a decent idea of when it rolled off the line
quote:
If you are a solid, tough negotiator, why would the dealership bother with you when they know some schlub is going to walk through the door and be willing to pay the invoice price or more?
of course they want to make as much money as they can, so if it is a hot car that they can not keep on the lot they will only go so low, but if they are not sure when the next buyer will be around and they have incentives to get rid of it they will play ball. Some MFR to dealer incentives are set up that the goal of the dealership is to sell x units in a time frame and if they hit that goal they get a bonus and every unit over that goal they get more of a bonus, so you never really know what is going on behind the scenes and sometimes they are more willing to make less on a unit than others because it will put them over a threshold
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:49 am to Jake88
quote:
Are there dealer holdbacks and other incentives paid to the dealer for a used car similar to how it is for a new car?
No such incentives exist for used vehicles. The only incentive/rebates that you would see on a used vehicle is if you bought it through a lender that supported a program like a military customer.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:55 am to Jake88
I knew exactly the car I wanted. I found about a dozen that met my criteria (2012 Acura) on Car Max. I then shopped against that at the dealerships. Car Max crushed every dealership in Louisiana and made it substantially easier. So if I were you, I'd use them as a comparison tool, even if you don't buy it there.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:57 am to Jake88
I base my price on comps. If dealerships average say $20k, and private party averages $16k for a car, I won't pay any more than the lower end of the private party average because I can get the car for that price. It's all about what the market supports.
If a big dealership is selling a car for $20k, chances are they paid around $12-13k for it on a trade-in. Probably around $9-10k at auction.
New rebate amounts are advertised in magazines and newspapers. Dealerships might not bring them up if you are uninformed.
To find time spent on a lot, look at internet sales websites, and they'll tell you how long the add has been up for.
Some dealerships will take the chance in losing a sale over a few dollars, and some just want to move the car. You can't tell which one will.
No. To ballpark it, look at average, fair, and poor trade-in prices. Unless the car is immaculate, they paid the fair or poor value, or got it from an auction for much less.
I'm finished taking a dump, so I don't have time to write anymore
If a big dealership is selling a car for $20k, chances are they paid around $12-13k for it on a trade-in. Probably around $9-10k at auction.
New rebate amounts are advertised in magazines and newspapers. Dealerships might not bring them up if you are uninformed.
To find time spent on a lot, look at internet sales websites, and they'll tell you how long the add has been up for.
Some dealerships will take the chance in losing a sale over a few dollars, and some just want to move the car. You can't tell which one will.
No. To ballpark it, look at average, fair, and poor trade-in prices. Unless the car is immaculate, they paid the fair or poor value, or got it from an auction for much less.
I'm finished taking a dump, so I don't have time to write anymore
This post was edited on 1/7/16 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:58 am to Jake88
quote:carfax shows the title transfers so you'll know when the dealership got the vehicle
How can I find out the time a car spends on the lot, new or used?
Posted on 1/7/16 at 12:04 pm to Jake88
quote:
How do you find the factory to dealer rebate amounts on new cars?
The car manufacturer websites will have the rebates on them. You can search rebates specific to your area as well as nationally.
quote:
How can I find out the time a car spends on the lot, new or used?
Cargurus.com usually have how long the car has been listed for used cars
quote:
you negotiated extremely well on a new car and got way below invoice and didn't pay the BS fees, could you potentially get the same price for that new car as you would for a certified pre-owned car because of the hidden money the dealership gets from the manufacturer on the new car when it's sold?
Yes.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:00 pm to ForeverLSU02
That site recommended Edmunds and True Car which I know favor the dealers and accept money from them. How can it be non-biased?
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:09 pm to Jake88
Get online and shop in Texas. I haven't bought a vehicle in Louisiana in a decade. 10% cheaper new or pre-owned.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:12 pm to Jake88
Email me what your looking for an can give you a bottom line price.
As far as your question goes, used cars are the advantage a dealership has against consumer, as the dealership is the only one that knows the cost they own a vehicle for, plus there is not much incentive to move them so does the dealership want to move a unit more than try to get all the $ for it, that is the only push a dealership may compromise on (like a vehicle that has been in stock for long period of time).
As far as your question goes, used cars are the advantage a dealership has against consumer, as the dealership is the only one that knows the cost they own a vehicle for, plus there is not much incentive to move them so does the dealership want to move a unit more than try to get all the $ for it, that is the only push a dealership may compromise on (like a vehicle that has been in stock for long period of time).
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:21 pm to Jake88
quote:Not really. Only the dealer knows, and since they got it trade it's mixed up in the deal they gave for the car.
Regarding pre-owned...
Is it possible to find the dealer cost for the used vehicle? If not can you ballpark the cost? If so, how?
quote:No.
Are there dealer holdbacks and other incentives paid to the dealer for a used car similar to how it is for a new car?
quote:this is mostly marketing BS. You will get a much better deal from an individual. Find a car you want and take it to a good machanic. If you are really thorough you will get a leak down test and emissions. You will know much more about that car than you would a certified preowned as long as your mechanic is good
certified pre-owned car
This post was edited on 1/7/16 at 7:22 pm
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:27 pm to Martini
Shopping at those massive dealerships in Houston is usually a good move. They make more on volume and less on margin.
Either way, the dealership is going to get theirs. You can either live with that or not buy from a dealership.
Either way, the dealership is going to get theirs. You can either live with that or not buy from a dealership.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:36 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Well people hire me to perform a service and I don't work for free. I don't expect to buy a car for under what they paid for it. A car salesman has to feed and clothe a family same as me.
I've bought the last five from Lewis Chevrolet in Canton. He also owns the big flea market and sells more corvettes than any dealership in Texas. I haven't bought one. But he has consistently been 10% cheaper than anyone in Louisiana.
I've bought the last five from Lewis Chevrolet in Canton. He also owns the big flea market and sells more corvettes than any dealership in Texas. I haven't bought one. But he has consistently been 10% cheaper than anyone in Louisiana.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:27 am to Martini
If I look to buy pre-owned from a dealership can I find the original invoice for the car? I bought my last car pre-owned and they had the original window sticker. What about the original invoice?
Is there a website that has that old invoices like they do for the 2015/2016's?
Thanks
Is there a website that has that old invoices like they do for the 2015/2016's?
Thanks
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:57 am to Jake88
Not that I know of. Some times the original window sticker is turned in with vehicle. I have minimal access to finding original invoice/delivery date/original dealership on my units. But maybe other manufacturers has more access to original information
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:01 am to Jake88
As a general rule of thumb, the dealer likely paid fair condition wholesale value for the vehicle and invested some money into reconditioning it.
Having said that, every used car deal has the potential to be unique. Without an inside source, you won't know what the dealer really has in the car.
Most or all of the valuation guides you have access to use real purchase info to set the values.
Having said that, every used car deal has the potential to be unique. Without an inside source, you won't know what the dealer really has in the car.
Most or all of the valuation guides you have access to use real purchase info to set the values.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 10:03 am
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:20 am to Martini
quote:
I've bought the last five from Lewis Chevrolet in Canton. He also owns the big flea market and sells more corvettes than any dealership in Texas. I haven't bought one. But he has consistently been 10% cheaper than anyone in Louisiana.
I have bought my last 2 from Houston and the 10% you talk about holds true. I got my very best deal on a vehicle from a local dealership, they could not go down another penny, first call to houston on the exact same car and they beat the BR deal by $4,000. Once the BR dealer found out I was talking to Houston, they would not even return my call, they knew they had been beat, and the truth of the matter if they would have come within $1,000 I would of kept my business local. The deal in Houston went super smooth and I will continue to do that in the future
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:21 am to PearlJam
What site would I find wholesale fair condition value? Looking at NADA I only saw trade in values.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:23 am to Jake88
You probably won't have access to that number without paying for it, but it will be close to trade value.
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