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Message
Prison -- rehabilitation vs incarceration
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:41 am
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:41 am
There was a thread several weeks ago which the OP asked thoughts @ if lifers should be given the opportunity to kill themselves.
In terms of overall jail....what are the expectations of the judge/jury once a person does their time?
Hypothetical: if the punishment for severe crimes was immediate and life-ending, would fear allow society to keep crime to a minimum ?
Would taxpayers support a bill that no longer allows felons to watch TV, browse Facebook, or earn their master's degree via their taxpayer money?
In terms of overall jail....what are the expectations of the judge/jury once a person does their time?
Hypothetical: if the punishment for severe crimes was immediate and life-ending, would fear allow society to keep crime to a minimum ?
Would taxpayers support a bill that no longer allows felons to watch TV, browse Facebook, or earn their master's degree via their taxpayer money?
This post was edited on 12/1/15 at 11:45 am
9
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:42 am to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
quote:
Hypothetical: if the punishment for severe crimes was immediate and life-ending, would fear allow society to keep crime to a minimum ?
Doubtful
I think most people would rather die than rot in prison anyway
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:42 am to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
Rope is cheaper and has a 0% recidivism rate.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:44 am to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
No criminal thinks they are going to get caught so the time frame of execution would have no effect on violent crime.
I think the goal of jails should be to rehabilitate. I do not believe that is what happens now.
I think the goal of jails should be to rehabilitate. I do not believe that is what happens now.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:45 am to fr33manator
quote:
Rope is cheaper and has a 0% recidivism rate.
So basically anyone who wants to commit suicide can now kill a bunch of people without punishment?
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:45 am to efrad
They can do that now.
What are you going to do to the dead?
What are you going to do to the dead?
This post was edited on 12/1/15 at 11:47 am
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:47 am to fr33manator
quote:
They can do that now.
What are you going to do to the dead?
Yes, they can do that now. Which is an argument for ending the death penalty.
If you don't kill them, they aren't the dead.
It's a bigger penalty to have them rot in prison.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:48 am to Powerman
Singapore is a county which is pretty much free of violent crimes.
What's the secret?
What's the secret?
Posted on 12/1/15 at 11:49 am to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
Penitentiaries were called that because you were to do penitence for your crimes. It was during the romance era we started this whole "rehabilitation".
Now, that's not the case. It's about security. It's about money.
Now, that's not the case. It's about security. It's about money.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 12:09 pm to SabiDojo
Fear is a great motivator.
We might lose a good person along the way, but collateral damage is sometimes just part of the road to success.
We might lose a good person along the way, but collateral damage is sometimes just part of the road to success.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 12:12 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Rope is cheaper and has a 0% recidivism rate.
Considering your avatar, this is an expected reply
Posted on 12/1/15 at 12:18 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
The "1%" that carry out violent crimes aren't known for their reason and logic when they do it. I'm sure they value their life about as much as they value someone else's. Most of them are just living their lives as a puppet to their emotions. If being caged for life isn't a deterrent, nothing is.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 12:24 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
I had the opportunity to visit a maximum security prison in MD. Jessup was the housing place of all lifers in MD, and I spent three days there in 2013. There was this think tank that began there called the Extra Legalese Group.
The five founders had over 2 centuries worth of incarceration between them.
They began the nonprofit in 2010, and since then, violence in the prison had been reduced by 90%.
They began emotional outreach groups, workshops, money management, GED programs, etc.
When they saw what was going on and how successful it was, they wanted to perform outreach in their own communities, as nearly 90% of the prisoners were from 5 zip codes in Baltimore. They had seen their neighbors, sons, cousins, and nephews coming through the prison gates, so they wanted to be proactive rather than retroactive. The gov't, specifically that fricker O'Malley, squashed the effort at every turn (which is why our think tank was invited to witness the results and lobby on their behalf).
The guys leading the group were killers at one time, but they are not killers now. They knew they weren't getting out of prison, but they desperately wanted others to choose a better path.
I met a kid in there named Donte. He had been in there since he was 17. He had just turned 25, and was getting out in three days. What do you think that dude's chances were, since he was going back to the same hood/environment?
Our prisons are for profit. Not for harm reduction. It is a backwards system, and much like our health care system, won't change unless we switch our priorities.
Extra Legalese Group
The five founders had over 2 centuries worth of incarceration between them.
They began the nonprofit in 2010, and since then, violence in the prison had been reduced by 90%.
They began emotional outreach groups, workshops, money management, GED programs, etc.
When they saw what was going on and how successful it was, they wanted to perform outreach in their own communities, as nearly 90% of the prisoners were from 5 zip codes in Baltimore. They had seen their neighbors, sons, cousins, and nephews coming through the prison gates, so they wanted to be proactive rather than retroactive. The gov't, specifically that fricker O'Malley, squashed the effort at every turn (which is why our think tank was invited to witness the results and lobby on their behalf).
The guys leading the group were killers at one time, but they are not killers now. They knew they weren't getting out of prison, but they desperately wanted others to choose a better path.
I met a kid in there named Donte. He had been in there since he was 17. He had just turned 25, and was getting out in three days. What do you think that dude's chances were, since he was going back to the same hood/environment?
Our prisons are for profit. Not for harm reduction. It is a backwards system, and much like our health care system, won't change unless we switch our priorities.
Extra Legalese Group
Posted on 12/1/15 at 12:38 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
Prisoners have opportunity to better themselves but they have to put in the effort at the end of the day very few choose to do the right thing.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 1:01 pm to rantfan
Yep.
Death to all those convicted. Set the example.
Death to all those convicted. Set the example.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 1:06 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
quote:
Would taxpayers support a bill that no longer allows felons to watch TV, browse Facebook, or earn their master's degree via their taxpayer money?
yes
quote:
if the punishment for severe crimes was immediate and life-ending, would fear allow society to keep crime to a minimum ?
I would think the death penalty would deter some...especially if we utilized it more often.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 1:30 pm to Topwater Trout
lets keep them ignorant, indigent and stupid. Great idea
Posted on 12/1/15 at 1:34 pm to Powerman
quote:
I think most people would rather die than rot in prison anyway
Then why do almost all people on death row appeal out the arse....waiting for a stay of execution?
Posted on 12/1/15 at 1:41 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
quote:Jail is used as a punishment, that is all. Being rehabilitated is at the behest of the individual. Learning skills (life and job) is completely up to them
In terms of overall jail....what are the expectations of the judge/jury once a person does their time?
quote:Most criminals don't think about the punishment at the time of their crimes. A lot of crimes, like murder, are impulsive. A lot are just done because the opportunity presents itself.
if the punishment for severe crimes was immediate and life-ending, would fear allow society to keep crime to a minimum ?
quote:Watching TV should be earned. It is not in a lot of places because you can just watch it in the main room of the block. I know first hand this is the case at EBRPP and in St Tammany. Never dressed out in OPP, so I'll revert to the few other OT'ers with experience in that.
Would taxpayers support a bill that no longer allows felons to watch TV, browse Facebook, or earn their master's degree via their taxpayer money?
Social media should be completely banned, and is in a lot of places. Emails should be screened more stringently.
I have no problem with inmates furthering their education, and support extra benefits for ones that do. As far as I know, you cannot get a master's in any regular prison. Would you rather someone released being illiterate, or would you rather them being learned and more able to integrate into society?
In an actual prison (2+ years), job training and education should be paramount. Also, all rights should be restored after an inmate has completed his sentence.
Posted on 12/1/15 at 1:42 pm to ksayetiger
quote:
Considering your avatar, this is an expected reply
It's actually from Stephen King's "The Gunslinger"
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