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Started By
Message
Monument/Memorial thread for thinking people.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:19 pm
Tearing down these things is dangerous.
It is just spreading division.
Mitch empowered the usual suspects in other cities. In Shreveport they are taking another run at the Confederate Monument outside the Caddo Courthouse even though old Shreveport money owns the dirt where it sits via Daughters of the Confederacy.
It can't be moved because it is a monument and not a memorial. It is placed at the location where the last Confederate flag was lowered in an official capacity after Appomattox. The monument is inscribed with such, therefore moving it negates it's purpose.
People need to understand one thing: These monuments and memorials were often a derivitive of a reconciliation process wherein both sides fought and came back together to honor each other as part of the healing process. It was a family fight and after it was over we came together and got right with each other as opposed to a foreign invasion.
These things at art. They are interpretive. They have no singular meaning.
A black person can see them as symbols of oppression. A white person can see them as symbols of oppression. A person can look at them with a sense of pride because their 3rd great grandad wanted to represent his state when called and had no hate in his heart. They can be looked at as warnings regarding what happens when divisions escalate to a level so high that no choice seems available other than taking up arms against someone that you shouldn't.
The old cliche' is that those that forget history are condemned to repeat it.
What happens when you erase history?
It is just spreading division.
Mitch empowered the usual suspects in other cities. In Shreveport they are taking another run at the Confederate Monument outside the Caddo Courthouse even though old Shreveport money owns the dirt where it sits via Daughters of the Confederacy.
It can't be moved because it is a monument and not a memorial. It is placed at the location where the last Confederate flag was lowered in an official capacity after Appomattox. The monument is inscribed with such, therefore moving it negates it's purpose.
People need to understand one thing: These monuments and memorials were often a derivitive of a reconciliation process wherein both sides fought and came back together to honor each other as part of the healing process. It was a family fight and after it was over we came together and got right with each other as opposed to a foreign invasion.
These things at art. They are interpretive. They have no singular meaning.
A black person can see them as symbols of oppression. A white person can see them as symbols of oppression. A person can look at them with a sense of pride because their 3rd great grandad wanted to represent his state when called and had no hate in his heart. They can be looked at as warnings regarding what happens when divisions escalate to a level so high that no choice seems available other than taking up arms against someone that you shouldn't.
The old cliche' is that those that forget history are condemned to repeat it.
What happens when you erase history?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:20 pm to Scoop
quote:
What happens when you erase history?
Nazis.
Literally Hitler.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:22 pm to Scoop
quote:
Tearing down these things is dangerous
Hitler
Stalin
Saddam
Landrieu
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:23 pm to Scoop
To be honest, I'm ready for a great schism
Cleansing if you will
Cleansing if you will
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:24 pm to Scoop
quote:you could not be more out of place
for thinking people.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:24 pm to Breesus
quote:
Hitler
Stalin
Saddam
Landrieu
Landrieu isnt like the others, you what is different?
his name ends in a vowel
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:27 pm to Scoop
Great thread man, seriously. I agree with everything you said.
It's a shame the population that wants these things removed are too stupid to recognize these things.
It's a shame the population that wants these things removed are too stupid to recognize these things.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:27 pm to Scoop
I'm having one in Jeff Davis's honor
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:33 pm to pistolpete23
OMG.....Billy Idol is a fricking Nazi!!!!!!!
I JUST CAN'T RIGHT NOW, Y'ALL!
I JUST CAN'T RIGHT NOW, Y'ALL!
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:53 pm to saint tiger225
quote:
It's a shame the population that wants these things removed are too stupid to recognize these things.
The one major advantage that Democrats will always have over Republicans. They know their voting base.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:55 pm to Scoop
Wouldn't you rebels want history to forget the civil war. Yall got your arse whooped
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:55 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
quote:
for thinking people.
you could not be more out of place
I am here now so its in the right place.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:00 pm to Scoop
This whole ordeal reminds me of Down's song "New Orleans is a dying whore...naked she sleeps on my floor."
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:22 pm to Scoop
This is a complex issue. The confederacy obviously fought for state rights with the main issue being slavery. The southern states obviously didn't want the federal government telling them whether or not they could use slaves.
So any support for the confederacy is seen as a support of slavery, which I understand why people see it that way. After all, that was one of the main issues the civil war was fought.
But as the OP said, it is art. It is interpreted different by different people.
This is a black guy, a student at South Carolina who supports the confederate flag and was forced to take down his flag and he explains why he supports it.
LINK
Personally, if I were black, I would not care enough to get behind taking down the statues, but I would not be in support of it either.. Because it would represent something, that if it was still a thing today, that would force me to be a slave.
But I would also like to know why the monuments were put up? Did, whoever approve of them, do so because they supported slavery? Was it simply because of historic reasons? Either way, because it would not have any personal impact on me whether they are up or taken down, I would not give a good frick.
So any support for the confederacy is seen as a support of slavery, which I understand why people see it that way. After all, that was one of the main issues the civil war was fought.
But as the OP said, it is art. It is interpreted different by different people.
This is a black guy, a student at South Carolina who supports the confederate flag and was forced to take down his flag and he explains why he supports it.
LINK
Personally, if I were black, I would not care enough to get behind taking down the statues, but I would not be in support of it either.. Because it would represent something, that if it was still a thing today, that would force me to be a slave.
But I would also like to know why the monuments were put up? Did, whoever approve of them, do so because they supported slavery? Was it simply because of historic reasons? Either way, because it would not have any personal impact on me whether they are up or taken down, I would not give a good frick.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:27 pm to Scoop
quote:
These things at art. They are interpretive. They have no singular meaning.
This is such a bullshite position. They are monuments to people. They are statues of the people they honor. There is no interpretation needed.
Fwiw, I don't care about the damned statues.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:27 pm to Scoop
You are clearly not a thinking person, so keep on steering clear of those history books.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:28 pm to Scoop
quote:
A person can look at them with a sense of pride because their 3rd great grandad wanted to represent his state when called and had no hate in his heart.
This is what it is to me. My great great great (maybe one more great) grandfather fought at Vicksburg. We still have copies of his parole papers from the Union Army and his pay stubs from the Confederate Army. He held no slaves, I'm sure he was a product of his environment so he wasn't a friend to blacks but that was the time he lived in.
Most men in the confederacy held no slaves, but they fought because they saw what to them was a foreign army marching in their lands.
While, yes, the Confederacy was essentially Un-American, it is an immensely important part of the American heritage and history. People seem to forget that these men were mostly a generation or two removed from the Revolutionary War. Hell, Lee's father was a commander in the Revolution, his wife was related to George fricking Washington himself.
To take these monuments down is damaging and dangerous. It's what every dictatorial entity has done since forever when they come into power.
Eta: And let me be clear, nobody, and I mean NOBODY is trying to stand up for slavery or try to say that slavery was ever justified.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 8:33 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:29 pm to Scoop
quote:That's the biggest thing. It never ends. Like the students at UCSB recently proved, enough is never enough. When you give in, they immediately bounce back and want more.
Mitch empowered the usual suspects in other cities.
In the case of monuments, I can absolutely assure you that they will eventually come for "slave owners" Washington, Jefferson, etc. The attacks on the Founders have been going on for a while, and have recently surged.
It's what communists do. Polished Marxist Sanders nearly won the nomination and I think he'd have beaten Trump. I fear that the next one like him will. Then, no act of absurd leftism will be off limits.
I'd love to see Trump rescue Lee, but he'll never do it. He appears to be getting steered around by puppeteers just like every other president.
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