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Marines looking into claims of mistaken ID in Iwo Jima flag photo (UPDATE 5/4)
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:14 pm
Update (5/4)
‘Flags of Our Fathers’ author now says his father was not in iconic Iwo Jima photo
quote:
Bradley published the book about the events surrounding the photo in 2000. Titled “Flags of Our Fathers,” it was later made into a movie directed by Clint Eastwood. But it was only after his father, John Bradley, died in 1994 and after the Marine Corps received a set of previously unreleased photos in 2010 that he realized that his father had been talking about being a part of the first flag-raising but not the second.
“We had no photographic evidence that he was in the first flag-raising and then it comes out 70 years later [after] the Marine [Corps] sits on these photos … and it turns [out] he was in the first [flag-raising],” Bradley said in an interview Tuesday with The Washington Post. “And then I realize he was talking about the first flag-raising,” Bradley said.
“I was never so excited that my father raised the flag on Iwo Jima, and I’m not so disappointed that he’s not in the second photo,” Bradley said. “I was trying to write a factual book about the heroes of Iwo Jima.”
First Flag Raising
LINK
quote:
DES MOINES, Iowa — The Marine Corps has begun investigating whether it mistakenly identified one of the men shown raising the U.S. flag at Iwo Jima in one of the iconic images of World War II after two amateur history buffs began raising questions about the picture
The Marines announced its inquiry more than a year after Eric Krelle, of Omaha, Nebraska, and Stephen Foley, of Wexford, Ireland, began raising doubts about the identity of one man. In November 2014, the Omaha World-Herald published an extensive story about their claims and Saturday was the first to report the Marines were looking into the matter.
quote:
After examining the famous photo along with other pictures taken that day of the men, they concluded that the man identified as Sousley was actually Harold Henry Schultz, a private first class from Detroit. Schultz died in 1995. They also contend that the figure initially identified as Bradley was Sousley, which if true means Bradley wasn't in the photo.
Krelle declined to comment on the Marine's investigation, telling the World-Herald he had signed a confidentiality agreement with a third party. A message left by the AP at a phone number listed to Krelle wasn't immediately returned.
In 2014, Krelle had told the newspaper, "People can hold onto what they have always known in the past. But to me, the photos are the truth."
Discrepancies identified by Krelle and Foley included:
Bradley wore uncuffed pants in the famous photo but other pictures shot that day shows in him tightly cuffed pants.
The bill of a cap is visible beneath the helmet in the flag-raising picture but not in other images of Bradley made that day.
The man identified as Bradley is wearing a cartridge belt with ammunition pouches, and a pair of wire cutters hangs off the belt. But as a Navy corpsman, Bradley would typically be armed with a sidearm, not an M-1 rifle, and he'd have no need for wire cutters. Other photos that day show him wearing what appears to be a pistol belt with no ammo pouches.
Bradley's son, James Bradley, wrote a best-selling book about the flag raisers, "Flags of Our Fathers," which was later made into a movie directed by Clint Eastwood.
John Bradley
This post was edited on 5/4/16 at 6:50 am
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:19 pm to GetCocky11
Its a great and iconic picture. I don't believe the individuals involved change that in the slightest.
That being said, it has always seemed a bit weird that it took 4 men to raise a flag pole, leading me to believe it was likely a staged photo op.
ETA: Apparently it is widely thought that the action in the photo was staged while they raised a larger flag. I honestly had no clue.
That being said, it has always seemed a bit weird that it took 4 men to raise a flag pole, leading me to believe it was likely a staged photo op.
ETA: Apparently it is widely thought that the action in the photo was staged while they raised a larger flag. I honestly had no clue.
This post was edited on 5/3/16 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:24 pm to slackster
quote:
That being said, it has always seemed a bit weird that it took 4 men to raise a flag pole, leading me to believe it was likely a staged photo op.
I thought it was common knowledge that they raised it, it got knocked down, and then they raised it again for the photo op.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:26 pm to GetCocky11
There has been controversy over the IDs of the raisers ever since the photo became public.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:31 pm to PurpleandGold Motown
quote:
I thought it was common knowledge that they raised it, it got knocked down, and then they raised it again for the photo op.
They raised a small flag, first. A larger flag was sent up for a variety of reasons. The second raising (the super famous one) is the larger flag. The participants are adamant about it not being posed. There is actual film of them taking the first, smaller flag down, while the bigger flag is going up. Bradley is the only confirmed participant of both raisings. That unit was up and around the summit at the time.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter - I'm army, but "The Marine Corps" was at the summit of Suribachi that day. My wife's grandfather was near the summit during that battle, got shot in the gut and was reported dead to his wife. He lived another 15 years, though.
This post was edited on 5/3/16 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:42 pm to GetCocky11
I'll just leave this here... Man in Black
The Indians in the crowd look badass.
The Ballad of Ira Hayes
The Indians in the crowd look badass.
The Ballad of Ira Hayes
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:43 pm to PurpleandGold Motown
quote:
I thought it was common knowledge that they raised it, it got knocked down, and then they raised it again for the photo op.
Probably is.
Apparently I was out of the loop.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:45 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
My wife's grandfather was near the summit during that battle, got shot in the gut and was reported dead to his wife. He lived another 15 years, though.
With her, or did he live another 15 years as a rogue man?
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:49 pm to slackster
quote:
With her
He went home and fathered a child with her while convalescing (not my father in law, but his younger brother).
quote:
or did he live another 15 years as a rogue man?
WTF is wrong with you?
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:51 pm to GetCocky11
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:51 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
WTF is wrong with you?
I was genuinely questioning how the story ended. I thought he may have been reported dead but come to find out he lived another 15 years without her knowing.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:59 pm to GetCocky11
Watch the movie Flags of Our Fathers. It tells how this all went down. Eastwood directed it and its a good watch
Posted on 5/3/16 at 12:59 pm to slackster
quote:
I was genuinely questioning how the story ended. I thought he may have been reported dead but come to find out he lived another 15 years without her knowing.
Sorry. They corrected their mistake, after officially notifying her. I guess that's better than the other way, right?
Posted on 5/3/16 at 1:09 pm to GetCocky11
Never forget Ralph Ignatowski
quote:
"On March 3, Private Ralph Ignatowski was somehow dragged into a cave within a small canyon. What I tell you next is what I heard but did not see. He may have tried to rescue Ignatowski, but I don’t know for sure.”
“I walked into the canyon and found Lieutenant Sokol on a road, Ralph Ignatowski close behind. An officer approached me and said, 'Don’t touch them. We may have an atrocity here.’ I understand Ralph had been bayoneted numerous times; some punctures bled, some did not.”
quote:
"I have tried so hard to block this out. To forget it. We could choose a buddy to go in with. My buddy was a guy from Milwaukee. We were pinned down in one area. Someone elsewhere fell injured and I ran to help out, and when I came back my buddy was gone. I couldn’t figure out where he was. I could see all around, but he wasn’t there. And nobody knew where he was.
A few days later someone yelled that they’d found him. They called me over because I was a corpsman. The Japanese had pulled him underground and tortured him. His fingernails... his tongue... It was terrible. I’ve tried hard to forget all this." -- John Bradley
quote:
Other eyewitness reports further indicated that Ignatowski had been tortured in the cave by the Japanese for three days, during which time they also cut out his eyes, cut off his ears, smashed in his teeth, and cut off his genitalia.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 1:27 pm to HogBalls
quote:
Watch the movie Flags of Our Fathers. It tells how this all went down. Eastwood directed it and its a good watch
Seen it, own it, love it. Flags of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima are both really, really good.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 1:29 pm to GetCocky11
What people fail to understand is that none of these men cared to be seen as "more important" than the men around them. Doc spent his entire life dodging interviews. Ira Hayes became a severe alcoholic (which ended up killing him) for the notoriety he gained by being identified as being in the picture. In a perfect world, we'd never know who those men in the picture are...that way relatives can look at it and think "Hey, maybe it was my grandpa who raised the flag".
Posted on 5/3/16 at 1:30 pm to TexasTiger90
quote:
In a perfect world, we'd never know who those men in the picture are
Yeah but those war bonds wouldn't sell themselves.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 1:37 pm to GetCocky11
quote:Just doing their part for Uncle Sam...
Yeah but those war bonds wouldn't sell themselves.
"Here's an idea guys...and stay with me: We take 3 scarred men, men who have gone through the absolute worst of humanity with no relief for over a month...stay with me...and we parade them around the country making them re-live the most terrifying experiences of their lives and reminding them of the 3 brothers they lost before they left the island, and we'll use them to make money to finish the war. Brilliant!"
Posted on 5/4/16 at 6:50 am to GetCocky11
Updated OP. Bradley's son now says his father was not in the second photo.
I know this isn't a huge story, but it is cool for the history folks around here.
I know this isn't a huge story, but it is cool for the history folks around here.
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