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Madison Brooks Case - A Discussion Regarding Alcohol and Consent
Posted on 1/30/23 at 10:57 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 10:57 am
As an Alumni been following the sad thing about the Madison Brooks case. As someone who has a boy going to college next year (not LSU and sadly with the state of Baton Rouge glad it's not LSU) I've already had the consent discussion with him. Honestly I'm tried to tell him I would rather him go the escort route than try to hook up with most college girls. I've told him to assume no consent unless the girl says it and to reaffirm every few minutes that he has consent.
But here's my point. It seems as though the Madison Brooks Case is going to rely on consent. Obviously what those men did were despicable and I hope they sit behind bars for the rest of their life. With that said, it seems as though this case has brought up an interesting discussion regarding consent.
The defense will try to claim consent while of course the family and the prosecution will emphasize that as Madison Brooks was well above the legal limit she could not legally consent to sex.
Here's something I thought about it with this case. What if both parties are drunk? Legally then neither side could by the law legally consent to sex. As I was thinking about this in regards to my son it means by the law a whole heck of a lot of us (probably all of us at some point in college) could legally be accused of rape.
So from both the general perspective as well as from the legal perspective (for those in the legal profession on this board), what happens if both are drunk and neither can legally consent to rape? Did both parties essentially rape each other?
I find this curious as with the Me Too movement and other movements in recent years the focus is only on women not being able to legally consent when drunk. But what about if both the man and woman are drunk? Could the man essentially countersue and claim the woman drunk her as well?
With the standard now being that someone can legally claim rape due to not being able to legally consent due to being drunk I see it opening up a whole can of worms going forward.
But here's my point. It seems as though the Madison Brooks Case is going to rely on consent. Obviously what those men did were despicable and I hope they sit behind bars for the rest of their life. With that said, it seems as though this case has brought up an interesting discussion regarding consent.
The defense will try to claim consent while of course the family and the prosecution will emphasize that as Madison Brooks was well above the legal limit she could not legally consent to sex.
Here's something I thought about it with this case. What if both parties are drunk? Legally then neither side could by the law legally consent to sex. As I was thinking about this in regards to my son it means by the law a whole heck of a lot of us (probably all of us at some point in college) could legally be accused of rape.
So from both the general perspective as well as from the legal perspective (for those in the legal profession on this board), what happens if both are drunk and neither can legally consent to rape? Did both parties essentially rape each other?
I find this curious as with the Me Too movement and other movements in recent years the focus is only on women not being able to legally consent when drunk. But what about if both the man and woman are drunk? Could the man essentially countersue and claim the woman drunk her as well?
With the standard now being that someone can legally claim rape due to not being able to legally consent due to being drunk I see it opening up a whole can of worms going forward.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 10:59 am
47
Posted on 1/30/23 at 10:58 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
Here's something I thought about it with this case. What if both parties are drunk? L
Original idea
Posted on 1/30/23 at 10:59 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
What if both parties are drunk?
I've thought about that as well, and it's an interesting question that I'm not sure what the answer is.
But something tells me she was drunker by quite a good bit than everyone else involved.
quote:
Honestly I'm tried to tell him I would rather him go the escort route than try to hook up with most college girls.
Not sure I'm on board with that.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 11:02 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:00 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
Honestly I'm tried to tell him I would rather him go the escort route than try to hook up with most college girls.
This seems like a terrible idea.
All you can do is hope he doesn’t do anything TOO stupid.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:01 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:Previous cases seem to trend towards the male still being at fault.
What if both parties are drunk?
And by previous cases, Scruffy means pretty much all of them.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 11:02 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:02 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I've thought about that as well, and it's an interesting question that I'm not sure what the answer is.
But something tells me she was drunker by quite a good bit than everyone else involved.
But what if the guy is more legally drunk but the girl initiates. I'll admit I have trouble with the "if they are drunk they can't legally consent" idea being the only standard. To me it opens up a lot of rape claims after either side has regrets the following morning (especially if the man or woman they have sex with isn't as attractive as they were the night before, which we know NEVER happens).
I get the reason for it, but even using your scenario what if both the man and woman are completely hammered? Did they both just rape the other one? So if the woman claims rape could the man counter sue and claim rape as well? Are we going to see more of these going forward?
Would also love a legal perspective. And again this isn't crazy related to the Madison Brooks case but it did make me think about it.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:03 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
reaffirm every few minutes that he has consent.
Kinky
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:03 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
ScorpioMan006
Member since Jan 2023
2 posts
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:03 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
Intoxication
The fact of an intoxicated or drugged condition of the offender at the time of the commission of the crime is immaterial, except as follows:
(1) Where the production of the intoxicated or drugged condition has been involuntary, and the circumstances indicate this condition is the direct cause of the commission of the crime, the offender is exempt from criminal responsibility.
(2) Where the circumstances indicate that an intoxicated or drugged condition has precluded the presence of a specific criminal intent or of special knowledge required in a particular crime, this fact constitutes a defense to a prosecution for that crime.
And just FYI, rape (in all forms) requires a general intent, not specific intent. So Paragraph 2 wouldn't apply in these scenarios.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 11:05 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:04 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
Honestly I'm tried to tell him I would rather him go the escort route than try to hook up with most college girls.
As a parent, you actually said this to your son?
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:04 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
Did they both just rape the other one?
Yes, technically.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:04 am to Scruffy
quote:
Previous cases seem to trend towards the male still being at fault.
And by previous cases, Scruffy means pretty much all of them.
Sadly this is probably the case. Any time it's rape it's "immediately believe the woman" and "the guy is instantly at fault" instead of waiting for the facts to come out at trial.
But what if they were both drunk, the woman initiated and there's no other evidence of rape besides the woman saying it?
I guess it's part of the reason I'm worried for my son. I definitely feel like we raised him right but I feel almost bad thinking I'd rather him go the escort route than to have sex with any college girl. All it takes is one girl regretting the sex the day after and whoever the man she has sex with is screwed.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 11:06 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Yes, technically.
have you seen or heard of cases with this scenario counselor?
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:05 am to 777Tiger
No, which is why I put "technically" in there
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:06 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:
neither can legally consent to rape?
I don't think you can "legally" consent to rape, drunk or otherwise.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:07 am to Breauxsif
quote:
As a parent, you actually said this to your son?
Yes I did and honestly I don't regret it. Not saying I like either idea.
I've tried to raise him to only have sex with a woman who he's in a committed relationship with. But if it comes down to a one night stand I'd rather it be with an escort than a college girl who might change her mind and claim rape the next morning.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:07 am to ScorpioMan006
quote:Are you will insane? You would rather your child pay for sex with someone who’s had tons of penises in every orifice of her body? Have you heard of herpes and HIV?
I would rather him go the escort route
quote:None of us women are doing that.
reaffirm every few minutes that he has consent.
Your son will never have sex if he follows your advice. This is a very embarrassing and LSUCOYOTE type of post.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:08 am to tigergirl10
quote:
None of us women are doing that.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
One has to be the offender otherwise there’s no crime. One has constructive knowledge of lack of consent and therefore wouldn’t be raped himself
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 11:09 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 11:09 am to tigergirl10
quote:
None of us women are doing that.
Your son will never have sex if he follows your advice. This is a very embarrassing and LSUCOYOTE type of post.
I know what you're saying but if it's consensual sex what's the problem? Seems like a safe route, especially for the woman. If the woman won't consent that would honestly make me suspicious that she's going to try something later on.
I agree it's cringeworthy but what's the problem of asking if she's still wanting the sex?
Honestly as a father and a Christian I'd be okay if he didn't have sex before marriage. But I'm also not an idiot.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 11:11 am
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