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re: High school grade inflation is worse than you think

Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:39 am to
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17131 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:39 am to
As long as funding for secondary education is based on standardized test results and graduation rates, grade inflation will always be a problem.

Today's college freshmen are less prepared for the academic rigors of higher education than ever before.
Posted by icegator337
Lafayette
Member since Jan 2013
3489 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:39 am to
everything should be judged by standardized testing

grades are far too subjective

ETA: and not everyone needs to go to college
This post was edited on 7/16/15 at 11:41 am
Posted by zelman
Bogan Walk
Member since Feb 2015
2400 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:42 am to
Public schools are a shite storm. I know why. I know how to fix it. You do too. But we can't talk about it.
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32515 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:44 am to
quote:

everything should be judged by standardized testing

grades are far too subjective

ETA: and not everyone needs to go to college

While I agree that not everyone should go to college, (see Southern's graduation rates) a standardized test is not the only way or even best way to evaluate all students.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
29286 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:44 am to
quote:

everything should be judged by standardized testing


I'm not so sure....it seems in LA you have teachers that are content to teach to the test and make sure they get their 5% (or whatever it is) every year.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I'm not sure it is grad rates, grades, or standardized test scores.

Maybe we need private independent educational rating firms to do some type of ratings and base funding and salary off of that....IDK.
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17131 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:49 am to
I agree grades are too subjective. I also definitely agree not everyone should go to college.

What we need are state-wide "End of Course" exams that feature thought provoking questions/responses better than multiple choice, T/F, Matching.

Louisiana has started this process but it is still in its infancy.

The standardized tests of today do not demonstrate true knowledge of a subject. Many students cram for the test, answer the questions and gain a passing score. Two weeks later most of them have forgotten the concepts.

We need more exams with essay questions that forces the student to apply a concept to a certain situation, not just regurgitate the definition.


ETA
And quit blaming teachers!!! Yes, there are some educators out there that do cringe worthy things but there are thousands of great educators out there begging to receive the type of support needed to educate our children. Support from parents, administrators and funding.
This post was edited on 7/16/15 at 11:59 am
Posted by TexasTiger89
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2005
24259 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:53 am to
quote:

Because the most important thing here is to determine which President of the United States we can blame for this problem.


The following President is to blame for ______________ problem. (fill in blank with problem)

A. George W. Bush
B. George W. Bush
C. George W. Bush
D. All of the above
Posted by High C
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
53754 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:54 am to
quote:

Maybe we need private independent educational rating firms to do some type of ratings and base funding and salary off of that....IDK.


Yeah, because those private companies really understand what goes on in the classroom and are beyond being corrupted.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
29286 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:56 am to
quote:

We need more exams with essay questions that forces the student to apply a concept to a certain situation, not just regurgitate the definition.


As a society we aren't ready to accept that failure rate....at least not today's society. Also, we certainly aren't a society that is ready to work hard enough with your proposed system to make it a viable pass/fail rate.

Although I think ultimately your answer is the correct one....I'm not certain we are ever going to implement it. We are going to hurt a lot of feeling and the first thing we are going to have to deal with is the fact that these tests are racist because I'd imagine the minority failure rate will be real high.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
29286 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 11:58 am to
quote:

Yeah, because those private companies really understand what goes on in the classroom and are beyond being corrupted.


Ahhh I see we have a status quo guy....please continue on.

I'll send my kid to a private school and she won't have to worry about this crap anyway.....and will be very well prepared for college and life in the real world.

I'm just trying to help you guys out.
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

I would bet this is almost entirely due to TOPS.
You'd lose that bet. It's bc of spineless admins who cater to parents and bc teachers don't want to deal with the backlash from student, admins, and parents. It's not just the unions bc the unions are weak in many states, and the problem is still there. Teachers are paid to babysit, not challenge students.
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32515 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

I'll send my kid to a private school and she won't have to worry about this crap anyway.....and will be very well prepared for college and life in the real world.

Private schools certainly have their advantages, but even they are now adopting testing procedures. Most are going through ACT. It mirrors the common core tests. Also, many private schools use the old school method of teaching. Kids sit, listen, then regurgitate. Memorization of facts and no understanding of concepts. It makes for great students, if that is the goal.
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17131 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

As a society we aren't ready to accept that failure rate....at least not today's society. Also, we certainly aren't a society that is ready to work hard enough with your proposed system to make it a viable pass/fail rate.


and yet we blame the teachers for the poor quality of our education system.

My 12 yo son struggled with english composition. I didn't tell the teacher they sucked because my son struggled. I asked for ideas/strategies to assist him at home. She was elated I asked! She told me it was refreshing. Think about that for a second...


Education should not stop when the final bell for the day rings.
Posted by High C
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
53754 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:06 pm to
Not status quo, just telling you what won't work. I've been in the public school classroom for 20 years, and I can tell you that I see very little chance of the problem being solved in our current political climate.
Posted by constant cough
Lafayette
Member since Jun 2007
44788 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

High school grade inflation is worse than you think




I could have used some grade inflation back when I was in school.
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17131 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

I'll send my kid to a private school and she won't have to worry about this crap anyway.....and will be very well prepared for college and life in the real world.


I worked at a private high school for a few years. Private does not equal better. Choose wisely because all that glitters is not gold.

Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
29286 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

even they are now adopting testing procedures. Most are going through ACT.


There is a place for that absolutely....however the greatest thing about private schools is that I can choose whichever one I want. Some do have unique characteristics and programs that prepare young people for college and even life after college.

In the public school system, at least in LA, for some reason they don't do this....I'm not sure if they can't do it or just won't.

Bottom line is I'd rather not have my child sitting somewhere wasting her time listening to some 25 yr old, simply working to get their next raise, regurgitate something that a theatre major from California thought would be a good idea to test high school students on.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
29286 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Private does not equal better. Choose wisely because all that glitters is not gold.


Highly agree on both points.
This post was edited on 7/16/15 at 12:11 pm
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32515 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

Bottom line is I'd rather not have my child sitting somewhere wasting her time listening to some 25 yr old, simply working to get their next raise, regurgitate something that a theatre major from California thought would be a good idea to test high school students on.

Don't get me wrong. I am not disagreeing with your decision. I work for the public school system at a private school (long story).
I plan to send my kid to a private Catholic school in the area. Like another poster said. Private schools come with their own unique issues.
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73426 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:16 pm to
Last week, the House narrowly passed a reauthorization of the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) that would help fix a law that Secretary of Education Arne Duncan has described as "broken." Earlier this year, Duncan had declared, "I believe we can work together — Democrats and Republicans — to move beyond the tired, prescriptive No Child Left Behind law." Even in a divided Washington, that seems to be happening. The House's Student Success Act would retain NCLB's regular testing and data transparency while putting an end to Washington's efforts to mandate school improvement. Meanwhile, the Senate looks like it's close to passing its own bipartisan bill, the Every Child Achieves Act, which makes similar corrections.



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This is all good news, because NCLB's problems have only grown with time. In a fit of aspirational overreach, NCLB required that 100 percent of students in every school should be "proficient" in reading and math by 2014. In schools that fail to meet the target (which is most of the nation's schools), states are to impose a series of federally mandated remedies. In a novel turn, Duncan offered to grant states relief from portions of the law, but only on the condition that states promise to enact a slate of preferred educational priorities (like federally preferred teacher evaluation systems and adoption of the Common Core or a federally approved alternative). The president and Duncan have insisted that the waivers were a last-ditch response to congressional "inaction."
Given that, you'd think Duncan would be eager to see NCLB's failings addressed. On major legislation, there are always going to be honest differences of opinion — on things like the House's decision to let federal Title I funds for low-income children follow students to public charter schools. There's a time-honored way to prepare the ground for fruitful negotiation on these things. This is when a Cabinet secretary says, "Congratulations to the House. It's good to see the process moving forward. There are provisions in the bill that I don't think the president will accept. But I look forward to seeking common ground." After all, just last year, Duncan professed, "I'm willing to help in any way that will be constructive to moving forward in a bipartisan way."

That's not how Duncan opted to respond to the passage of the Student Success Act. Instead, he proclaimed, "House Republicans have chosen to take a bad bill and make it even worse." This month, right after opining that "education always has been a bipartisan cause," Duncan averred that the Student Success Act "would represent a major step backwards for our nation and its children." Of the House proposal to allow federal dollars to follow low-income children to public district or charter schools, he's declared that Republicans are "moving money away from districts that need it" and that "It's like reverse Robin Hood. You're stealing from the poor to give to the rich."

That all seems a bit out-of-step with his Washington Post op-ed from earlier this year, in which Duncan proclaimed, "I respect my Republican colleagues deeply, and their care for this country's children is real." Of course, this is the same Duncan who went to Capitol Hill in 2013 and dismissed Republican concerns as "economically foolish," "morally indefensible" and tantamount to "education malpractice," and then, two months later, said, "I'm spending time every day, including this morning, talking to Republican members of the House and Senate to try and encourage them to be supportive. ... This should absolutely be a non-political, non-ideological investment."

Is Duncan just tone-deaf? Or is there something else on his mind? After all, for all its failings, No Child Left Behind has allowed Duncan to mandate state policy without the inconvenience of legislation. And he may be reluctant to let that go.
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