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Doing business with the government and "Social Disadvantage"
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:02 pm
As a Small Business, I was approached by a government client who is interested in buying my product. They asked me to look into getting registered with GSA so they can more easily purchase my product. Anyone here go through this before? I just came across the below and am blown away that someone else can get picked before me solely because of their skin color. This is "White Privilege" in writing. A little long, the quote is right from the government regulation, but worth a read if you are interested. If not the TLDR version is- You are white? Sorry, go to the back of the line.
Before SBA can approve an 8(a) Business Develop program application, the disadvantaged individual(s) must show that he or she is socially disadvantaged.
Under federal law, socially disadvantaged individuals are those who have been subjected to racial or ethnic prejudice or cultural bias within American society because of their identification as members of groups without regard to their individual qualities.
For purposes of the 8(a) Business Development program, the following individuals are presumed socially disadvantaged (called “presumed groups”):
Black Americans
Hispanic Americans
Native Americans
Asian Pacific Americans
Subcontinent Asian American
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, an individual applicant is presumed socially disadvantaged if:
Holds him or herself out to be a member of a presumed group
Is currently identified by others as a member of a presumed group
The presumed groups listed above are solely for purposes of SBA’s 8(a) Business Development program. Remember: An individual who is not a member of one of the "presumed groups" can be admitted into the 8(a) Business Development program.
Some businesses believe that if their firm is approved for Disadvantaged Business Enterprise certification by their state or other entity, the firm automatically is eligible for SBA’s certification. This is not so. Each federal agency's definition and qualification requirements are different.
Other Socially Disadvantaged Individuals
Other individuals may similarly be found socially disadvantaged and eligible for the program on a case-by-case basis.
An individual who is not a member of one of the presumed groups can be admitted into the 8(a) Business Development program. To do so, the business must prove to SBA that the individual(s) meeting SBA’s ownership and control requirements is socially disadvantaged. This process includes showing personal experiences where applicable in education, employment, and business history.
The individual must provide evidence to SBA proving one’s individual social disadvantage. Evidence of individual social disadvantage must include:
At least one objective distinguishing feature such as race, ethnic origin, gender, physical handicap, long-term residence in an environment isolated from the mainstream of American society, or other similar causes not common to individuals who are not socially disadvantaged.
Personal experiences of substantial and chronic social disadvantage in American society, not in other countries.
Negative impact on the individual’s entrance into the business world or advancement in the business world because of the stated disadvantage(s).
Before SBA can approve an 8(a) Business Develop program application, the disadvantaged individual(s) must show that he or she is socially disadvantaged.
Under federal law, socially disadvantaged individuals are those who have been subjected to racial or ethnic prejudice or cultural bias within American society because of their identification as members of groups without regard to their individual qualities.
For purposes of the 8(a) Business Development program, the following individuals are presumed socially disadvantaged (called “presumed groups”):
Black Americans
Hispanic Americans
Native Americans
Asian Pacific Americans
Subcontinent Asian American
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, an individual applicant is presumed socially disadvantaged if:
Holds him or herself out to be a member of a presumed group
Is currently identified by others as a member of a presumed group
The presumed groups listed above are solely for purposes of SBA’s 8(a) Business Development program. Remember: An individual who is not a member of one of the "presumed groups" can be admitted into the 8(a) Business Development program.
Some businesses believe that if their firm is approved for Disadvantaged Business Enterprise certification by their state or other entity, the firm automatically is eligible for SBA’s certification. This is not so. Each federal agency's definition and qualification requirements are different.
Other Socially Disadvantaged Individuals
Other individuals may similarly be found socially disadvantaged and eligible for the program on a case-by-case basis.
An individual who is not a member of one of the presumed groups can be admitted into the 8(a) Business Development program. To do so, the business must prove to SBA that the individual(s) meeting SBA’s ownership and control requirements is socially disadvantaged. This process includes showing personal experiences where applicable in education, employment, and business history.
The individual must provide evidence to SBA proving one’s individual social disadvantage. Evidence of individual social disadvantage must include:
At least one objective distinguishing feature such as race, ethnic origin, gender, physical handicap, long-term residence in an environment isolated from the mainstream of American society, or other similar causes not common to individuals who are not socially disadvantaged.
Personal experiences of substantial and chronic social disadvantage in American society, not in other countries.
Negative impact on the individual’s entrance into the business world or advancement in the business world because of the stated disadvantage(s).
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:08 pm to jbgleason
Decent chance that someone on the money board has experience in this area. Seems like someone there knows something about everything.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:11 pm to jbgleason
Were you born yesterday? Pretty standard stuff and it's bullshite.
Try being a purchasing agent related to a government contractor. The amount of paperwork and fluff one has to go through to prove you searched out and couldn't use a woman or minority owned business is pretty amazing.
You literally have spend goals you have to meet in four or five categories as a company.
Try being a purchasing agent related to a government contractor. The amount of paperwork and fluff one has to go through to prove you searched out and couldn't use a woman or minority owned business is pretty amazing.
You literally have spend goals you have to meet in four or five categories as a company.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:12 pm to jbgleason
Just say you're Native American. They'll never know.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:17 pm to jbgleason
That's just for the 8(a) program. There are set- asides and goals for government spending with 8(a) businesses. You should put your wife in charge of your company and go woman-owned.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:17 pm to jbgleason
I used to be in sales. I had a bid out to a government agency on products that only my company sold. The bid was brand specific that only we had the rights to that brand. Well the bids went out and a socially disadvantaged businesses got the bid. That company bought the products from another location of my company then sold it to the government for more Jan double what our bid was.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:20 pm to TheOfficial
quote:
I used to be in sales. I had a bid out to a government agency on products that only my company sold. The bid was brand specific that only we had the rights to that brand. Well the bids went out and a socially disadvantaged businesses got the bid. That company bought the products from another location of my company then sold it to the government for more Jan double what our bid was.
Yeah, but didn't that make you feel so happy you were helping people?
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:21 pm to TheOfficial
Just got off the phone with a client who has experience in this area. He told me to go find a business partner who is a Minority Female Disabled Veteran but only if I can't find an American Indian Eskimo Disabled Veteran.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:22 pm to jbgleason
I don't believe you. The government cannot discriminate on the basis of race.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:23 pm to jbgleason
And the best part is 8(a) has the unique ability to be sole sourced without notice
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:24 pm to jbgleason
quote:
Just got off the phone with a client who has experience in this area. He told me to go find a business partner who is a Minority Female Disabled Veteran but only if I can't find an American Indian Eskimo Disabled Veteran.
Make sure they identify as some fricked up gender status too
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:26 pm to upgrayedd
LoL. There is a section I didn't quote that was recently added allowing a "non-traditional" category to apply for 8a status. If I wasn't scared of getting black balled on this contract, I would love to submit a "I self identify as..." application and see what happens.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:26 pm to jbgleason
I've been a govt contractor for 20 years. Here are some of my observations -- not definitive statistics, simply my observations over the years.
1) The number of 8a Certified set-aside solicitations has diminished tremendously over the years.
2) The government overwhelmingly opts for "Small Business Set-Aside" with simple "lowest price, technically qualified" when evaluating bids. This means that the first thing they look at is lowest price, then they determine if that candidate is actually technically capable at supplying the product. If that's the case - no one else is evaluated. You get no bonus points by being 8a certified.
3) Depending on your product, establishing a GSA schedule can be helpful to your business, or very detrimental. Educate yourself. Basically, when you publish your GSA schedule, all of your competitors are able to obtain your pricing information. Alas, they get this anyway when/if you get an award, as the govt is obligated to publish the winning award amounts.
4) Yes, there are still some 8a certified solicitations. Don't sweat it -- usually these are in areas where competition is high and legitimate disadvantage business would not be able to compete otherwise. Is it fair? Personally, I'm not sure. But I do understand the logic in it -- increased competition means lower pricing for the government.
5) Review the new Obama initiated employer restrictions/requirements/guidelines for ANY small business wanting to do business with the government. In the past 24 months, he's implemented a significant set of Executive Orders which will increase the overhead of damn near every small business owner wishing to do business with the government. Want to be pissed about something -- be pissed about this.
Sorry -- normally I would supply links to the Executive Orders and Regulations, etc. But, if you are considering doing business with the government, it is best for you to do your own due diligence, else, you'll end up saying, "why didn't that arse hole from TD tell me about this."
1) The number of 8a Certified set-aside solicitations has diminished tremendously over the years.
2) The government overwhelmingly opts for "Small Business Set-Aside" with simple "lowest price, technically qualified" when evaluating bids. This means that the first thing they look at is lowest price, then they determine if that candidate is actually technically capable at supplying the product. If that's the case - no one else is evaluated. You get no bonus points by being 8a certified.
3) Depending on your product, establishing a GSA schedule can be helpful to your business, or very detrimental. Educate yourself. Basically, when you publish your GSA schedule, all of your competitors are able to obtain your pricing information. Alas, they get this anyway when/if you get an award, as the govt is obligated to publish the winning award amounts.
4) Yes, there are still some 8a certified solicitations. Don't sweat it -- usually these are in areas where competition is high and legitimate disadvantage business would not be able to compete otherwise. Is it fair? Personally, I'm not sure. But I do understand the logic in it -- increased competition means lower pricing for the government.
5) Review the new Obama initiated employer restrictions/requirements/guidelines for ANY small business wanting to do business with the government. In the past 24 months, he's implemented a significant set of Executive Orders which will increase the overhead of damn near every small business owner wishing to do business with the government. Want to be pissed about something -- be pissed about this.
Sorry -- normally I would supply links to the Executive Orders and Regulations, etc. But, if you are considering doing business with the government, it is best for you to do your own due diligence, else, you'll end up saying, "why didn't that arse hole from TD tell me about this."
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:31 pm to jbgleason
quote:
Holds him or herself out to be a member of a presumed group
Is currently identified by others as a member of a presumed group
The presumed groups listed above are solely for purposes of SBA’s 8(a) Business Development program. Remember: An individual who is not a member of one of the "presumed groups" can be admitted into the 8(a) Business Development program.
Ok here is what I am offering you....
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:35 pm to Floating Change Up
quote:
5) Review the new Obama initiated employer restrictions/requirements/guidelines for ANY small business wanting to do business with the government.
Thanks for a great response AND I have heard about the above but haven't gotten to that point yet. Now I am worried. Thanks... Haha.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 1:44 pm to jbgleason
So you are saying the government makes you go through a bunch of red tape?
Posted on 9/16/16 at 2:08 pm to jbgleason
Tell them you identify as a women.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 2:15 pm to Floating Change Up
quote:
Sorry -- normally I would supply links to the Executive Orders and Regulations, etc. But, if you are considering doing business with the government, it is best for you to do your own due diligence, else, you'll end up saying, "why didn't that arse hole from TD tell me about this."
Interested in what these regulations are, not doing work with the da gov'ment. Can you provide links for me?
Posted on 9/16/16 at 2:32 pm to jbgleason
Do not make any deals with the government, you will have to put up with so much red tape and restrictions it will not be worth it.
IE. You sell product A for 5.99, but the government says it should be 3.99. You paid 3.85 for the product, guess what they don't give a shite.
IE. You sell product A for 5.99, but the government says it should be 3.99. You paid 3.85 for the product, guess what they don't give a shite.
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