- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Couple exonerated in 25 year old "Satanic Panic" conviction
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:01 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
in the mid-80s to mid-90s (aka, the worst time in the history of the US), people truly believed Satanic cults were running wild
And now we'll get 10 pages out of this, SFP! This little gem is going to draw the ire of folks who think TODAY is the worst time in history AND those people who believe in Satanic cults.
Well played, sir!
1
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:02 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
but it's this false belief that one's memories are infallible that lead to so many other false beliefs or pseudoscience bullshite being believed. That whole, "I know what I saw!!!" nonsense.
yeah people, especially regular or sub-average people, refuse to accept that their memories are a construction and not actual recall
there are a TON of studies on this. one involved people who went to a trip to a company-based theme park who were primed to see an icon of another company at the park (so they go to Disney world and see Buggs Bunny). they TRULY, 100% believe they saw Buggs when it's not even possible
LINK
quote:
The participants were divided into four groups, and asked to read a printed ad for Disneyland.
The first group read an ad about the theme park that made no mention of cartoon characters.
The second group read the same ad, but a 4-foot-tall cardboard cutout of Bugs Bunny was placed in the room.
The third group, which the researchers refer to as the "Bugs Group," read a fake Disneyland ad featuring Bugs Bunny.
The fourth group got a double whammy: both the Bugs ad and the cardboard cutout.
After reading through the ad, which featured a picture of Bugs just outside the Magic Kingdom, the participants were asked whether they had met Bugs while on a visit to the theme park, and whether they had shaken his hand.
About one-third of the participants who had read the phony ad featuring Bugs said they either remembered, or at least knew, they had indeed met Bugs at Disneyland and shaken his hand. Or foot, as the case may be.
quote:
Once you step back and accept that we're TERRIBLE information gathering devices you're free to allow other, more accurate vehicles for measuring things, take over and do the heavy lifting.
people refuse to accept this because (1) it's an internal defense mechanism to justify their memories and beliefs and (2) it's fricking SCARY for most people to accept and believe their memories are bullshite. it's like a legitimate deconstruction of their existence
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a foundational moment of my life was taking Memory and Forgetting in undergrad. dude was an expert on exposing "repressed memories" as the fraud that they are and really left an imprint on me about the fallibility of memory. when i try to explain this stuff to some lawyers i work with (who believe eyewitness testimony is the end-all, be-all), they flatly reject it (i think b/c they want to protect the system they've invested so much in)
what's scary is that in most jurisdictions, it's inadmissible to hire an expert on false testimony to testify at trial to discuss the issue. the system itself bends over to protect the false narrative that witness testimony is reliable. if i had "frick you" money this would be an area i'd work on strongly to change our laws to be more rational and reflect reality
I took that course back in...Jesus, must've been 2001 with Janet McDonald. Great class. Fast forward many years and I actually presented on the topic at a forensic psych conference. I've always been a skeptic as far as the fallibility of memory goes, but if you dig into the research, you end up wondering just how many people are languishing away in prison on bullshite EWT. Not to mention the obvious financial incentives that result in false EWT being used in a multitude of civil contexts.
If I ever have frick you money, I'm dumping a large portion of it on the Innocence Project. They are on the forefront (IMHO) of the practical implementation of solid DNA science and EWT skepticism. Great dudes.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:03 am to foshizzle
quote:
But one thing I want to know is who the hell was the defense attorney and how in holy hell did the case get screwed up that badly?
there are no real defenses in these cases
on one hand, you have an innocent child giving vivid details of sexual abuse
on the other hand, you have defendants who can only win by saying that kid is a fricking liar
who do you think is going to win that battle?
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there are a TON of studies on this. one involved people who went to a trip to a company-based theme park who were primed to see an icon of another company at the park (so they go to Disney world and see Buggs Bunny). they TRULY, 100% believe they saw Buggs when it's not even possible
That's fantastic.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:04 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
And now we'll get 10 pages out of this, SFP! This little gem is going to draw the ire of folks who think TODAY is the worst time in history AND those people who believe in Satanic cults.
Well played, sir!
hey if you want to talk about false memories, the halcyon view of that era is a perfect example
brb going to get some more tinder for the fire
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:08 am to SleauxPlay
quote:
SleauxPlay
Damn...it's been a while! Welcome back.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:10 am to GeauxTigerTM
What's up, man!? It has indeed been a while since the hilarious poliboard evolution threads...
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:10 am to SleauxPlay
quote:
I've always been a skeptic as far as the fallibility of memory goes, but if you dig into the research, you end up wondering just how many people are languishing away in prison on bullshite EWT. Not to mention the obvious financial incentives that result in false EWT being used in a multitude of civil contexts.
oh 100%
i just did a jury trial a few months ago where there were 5 witnesses to the incident. ALL FIVE GAVE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE INCIDENT
i had 30 minutes for my closing and i took about...5. it was basically just repeating that there were 5 stories and if there is one reasonable explanation other than the specific story the prosecution was pushing, then there was reasonable doubt. jury came back guilty of a minor misdemeanor, lesser-included
yesterday was sentencing and the judge lectured my client about how if it had been a bench trial he'd have been guilty of the felony and that the jury was confused because his lawyer "muddied the waters" and he was visibly upset about it all, as if i did something wrong
luckily the prosecutor (the guy i actually have to deal with in the future) wasn't mad about it b/c we had talked about it a lot beforehand and knew it was just a bunch of "he said, she said" bullshite and we'd never resolve it on our own.
i 100% let out my patented smirk when the judge said i "muddied the waters" though. i couldn't help it
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:10 am to SlowFlowPro
As a kid who grew up in the deep south during those years, I can't even really explain to you how badly evangelicals wanted to believe that murderous pedophile Satanists had infiltrated all levels of society. They just desperately, desperately wanted it to be true.
and some of them still do I'm sure
and some of them still do I'm sure
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:13 am to EmperorGout
quote:
As a kid who grew up in the deep south during those years, I can't even really explain to you how badly evangelicals wanted to believe that murderous pedophile Satanists had infiltrated all levels of society. They just desperately, desperately wanted it to be true.
everyone had that "Satanic house" in their neighborhood that was just abandoned and likely used by bums, that older kids would go into and write Satanic shite in to scare the younger kids. it's one of those social memes
quote:
and some of them still do I'm sure
the fricked up, and i mean frickED UP part about it all was that during this time there was an organization actively covering up institutional child abuse...and that organization was the Catholic Church (anti-Papist protestants rejoice!)
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:13 am to SleauxPlay
quote:
It has indeed been a while since the hilarious poliboard evolution threads...
Yeah...that place is now essentially a gaping a-hole. But hey, at least there are no religious threads messing the place up like before, right?
I mean...none that call into question the truth claims of any of them, I mean.
I really miss those discussions...sad we can't have them anymore.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i just did a jury trial a few months ago where there were 5 witnesses to the incident. ALL FIVE GAVE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE INCIDENT
if you haven't seen Rashomon I recommend it
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:14 am to SlowFlowPro
At least it was "only" a misdemeanor, but this shite happens all of the freaking time in far more serious cases. Human memory is shite.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:15 am to EmperorGout
quote:
if you haven't seen Rashomon I recommend it
that's one of those movies that i always mean to watch, and i just never wanted to do it that badly
i mean since i was like 10 or so
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
yesterday was sentencing and the judge lectured my client about how if it had been a bench trial he'd have been guilty of the felony and that the jury was confused because his lawyer "muddied the waters" and he was visibly upset about it all, as if i did something wrong
Can't allow the EWT system to seem like it doesn't work, right?
Hard to imagine any truly honest person would want to perpetuate a system that is CLEARLY not working in favor of one in which justice is denied in order to protect the status quo.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:19 am to SleauxPlay
quote:
At least it was "only" a misdemeanor, but this shite happens all of the freaking time in far more serious cases.
oh i've worked on sex abuse cases where i 100% believed it was manufactured
one involved a mentally-challenged victim who was mad at her step father for leaving when her mother got cancer. others were mad too and i 100% believe somebody created a false abuse scenario. that guy pled b/c he was offered time served if he registered
another involved 2 people who were on a lot of drugs and alcohol all the time who fought a bunch. an aunt did the "i know how to make him go away" move. the guy looked like a weirdo and he was fully aware of his lot and took the same sort of deal as the guy above
i started doing tests with my friends about this. like...if you had a 25% chance of 40 years in prison or the opportunity to plead guilty, get out, and register, which do you choose? then just slide the %s around
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the fricked up, and i mean frickED UP part about it all was that during this time there was an organization actively covering up institutional child abuse...and that organization was the Catholic Church (anti-Papist protestants rejoice!)
Oh shite...
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i started doing tests with my friends about this. like...if you had a 25% chance of 40 years in prison or the opportunity to plead guilty, get out, and register, which do you choose? then just slide the %s around
This sounds like the most terrifying party game of all time.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:22 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Can't allow the EWT system to seem like it doesn't work, right?
i think a ton of criminal defense attorneys are way too undereducated on the whole "false memory" issue. they give lip service to the instability of EWT but don't really understand how it all works to communicate that to a jury in an ethical and legal way
i'm not claiming to be an expert on this or anything because i got lucky with a good jury and factual scenario, but my understanding of the meta concepts had to help me indirectly signal to the jury that this was all a bunch of bullshite
quote:
Hard to imagine any truly honest person would want to perpetuate a system that is CLEARLY not working in favor of one in which justice is denied in order to protect the status quo.
human nature, bro
we defend the systems that we're apart of and have invested in
the "big" example is religion
a better, less controversial system, is the "Luddite example" of resisting economic progress and technological development
many old school lawyers hate email and still dictate memos. you think they're going to accept criticism of EWT?
Page 2 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News