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Message
Are Scots-Irish and Their Culture the Most Under Represented Group of Americans?
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:38 pm
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:38 pm
Many came over early and never were separatist. They wanted to be Americans. May have given America more than any other group.
Most came over from 1700-1800.
Never wanted a category or subgrouping.....
"We, the descendants of the pioneer long hunters of the mountains, have been called Scotch-Irish and pure Anglo-Saxon, and that is complimentary, I reckon. But we want the world to know that we are Americans. The spiritual environment and our religious life in the mountains have made our spirit wholly American, and that true pioneer American spirit still exists in the Tennessee mountains.
Even today, I want you all to know, with all the clamor of the world and its evil attractions, you still find in the little humble log cabins in the Tennessee mountains that old-fashioned family altar of prayer–the same that they used to have in grandma's and grandpa's day–which is the true spirit of the long hunters.
We in the Tennessee mountains are not transplanted Europeans; every fiber in our body and every emotion in our hearts is American."
Alvin C. York
Medal of Honor
WWI
Most came over from 1700-1800.
Never wanted a category or subgrouping.....
"We, the descendants of the pioneer long hunters of the mountains, have been called Scotch-Irish and pure Anglo-Saxon, and that is complimentary, I reckon. But we want the world to know that we are Americans. The spiritual environment and our religious life in the mountains have made our spirit wholly American, and that true pioneer American spirit still exists in the Tennessee mountains.
Even today, I want you all to know, with all the clamor of the world and its evil attractions, you still find in the little humble log cabins in the Tennessee mountains that old-fashioned family altar of prayer–the same that they used to have in grandma's and grandpa's day–which is the true spirit of the long hunters.
We in the Tennessee mountains are not transplanted Europeans; every fiber in our body and every emotion in our hearts is American."
Alvin C. York
Medal of Honor
WWI
This post was edited on 4/25/17 at 11:53 pm
13
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:39 pm to BigOrangeBri
A wee Under Te, Laddy.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:42 pm to BigOrangeBri
There is this place called Boston where the pale moon lights ignites the skin of the people with the fury of a thousand suns
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:44 pm to BigOrangeBri
Is there a huge difference between scots-irish and just irish? If there isn't, then no. Irish is one of the most if not actually the most prominent white sub groups in America. Everyone wants to say that they are irish.
This post was edited on 4/25/17 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:46 pm to BigOrangeBri
I'm Scottish
I'll answer your question for $5
I'll answer your question for $5
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:48 pm to BigOrangeBri
How dare you talk about whites in this light. We don't know about 200 years of oppression!!!!
--stringsafety
--stringsafety
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:51 pm to Peazey
quote:
e difference between scots-irish and just irish? If there isn't, then no. Irish is one of the most if not actuall
Yes, there is a difference. Most that identify as Irish came over in the rush of the late 1800s and early 1900s
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:51 pm to BigOrangeBri
They have boston, so no.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:52 pm to Peazey
quote:
Is there a huge difference between scots-irish and just irish? If there isn't, then no. Irish is one of the most if not actually the most prominent white sub groups in America. Everyone wants to say that they are irish.
"Huge" is probably over-stating it, but without getting into too much detail, there is quite a difference with regards to their culture, religion, mindset, historical migration patterns into the U.S., and place within American society. I have the blood and family of both, so I think I have a decent perspective on it, but it's definitely interesting.
For starters, the "Irish", the term commonly used in the U.S., didn't start migrating in huge numbers until the late 1840's. Scots-Irish were the ants that built the colonies as early as the mid-1600's in large sections of the country.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:55 pm to SEClint
quote:
They have boston, so no.
You obviously have little knowledge about this subject. Sit down
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:55 pm to BigOrangeBri
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:56 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
"Huge" is probably over-stating it, but without getting into too much detail, there is quite a difference with regards to their culture, religion, mindset, historical migration patterns into the U.S., and place within American society. I have the blood and family of both, so I think I have a decent perspective on it, but it's definitely interesting. For starters, the "Irish", the term commonly used in the U.S., didn't start migrating in huge numbers until the late 1840's. Scots-Irish were the ants that built the colonies as early as the mid-1600's in large sections of the country.
Thank you. You have more knowledge on the subject than most
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:59 pm to BigOrangeBri
quote:The major Irish immigration began in response to the potato famine of the 1840s. By the Civil War there was already a large Irish community in NYC
Most that identify as Irish came over in the rush of the late 1800s and early 1900s
Posted on 4/26/17 at 12:03 am to Kafka
Trivia: when the Irish and Germans came to the US, they both brought something that was fairly rare here
The name "Michael"
The name "Michael"
Posted on 4/26/17 at 12:07 am to Peazey
quote:
Everyone wants to say that they are irish.
Or Italian.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 12:10 am to Kafka
quote:
The major Irish immigration began in response to the potato famine of the 1840s. By the Civil War there was already a large Irish community in NYC
A combination of the failed 1848 revolts and the Irish famine pretty dramatically changed the fabric of this country. There's a good argument to be had that the Union wouldn't have won the Civil War without them (nor would the country have industrialized as quickly as it did).
Italians, Irish, and Germans (especially Germans) came over in massive numbers. Not an accident that every port city from New Orleans to Boston has a similar-ish sound to it.
This post was edited on 4/26/17 at 12:12 am
Posted on 4/26/17 at 12:14 am to Kafka
quote:
The major Irish immigration began in response to the potato famine of the 1840s. By the Civil War there was already a large Irish community in NYC
Kafka, sorry, I was trying to make it as simple as possible. And also, many of the early immigrants 1840-1880s were in the same mindset as Many Scots-Irish. Most Racism towards Irish occurred in big cities in the late 1800s to the early 1900s. That's where the different identity was formed
Posted on 4/26/17 at 12:22 am to Peazey
Scots-Irish were Scottish protestant settlers brought over by the English to conquer the heathen catholics of Ireland. Their descendants are the protestants of Northern Ireland, and have been fighting the catholics ever since.
A lot of them emigrated to North America prior to and shortly after the Revolutionary War, mostly settling in the South. Southern culture is primarily Scots-Irish culture. Country music, and especially bluegrass, is a direct descendant of celtic music.
From the Scots-irish come the American, and particularly Southern American, sense of egalitarianism, disdain for aristocracy, and tendency for combativeness. Most of our greatest militsry leaders, from Andrew Jackson to Patton, were Scots-Irish.
Read "Born Fighting: the Scots-Irish in America" by James Webb.
A lot of them emigrated to North America prior to and shortly after the Revolutionary War, mostly settling in the South. Southern culture is primarily Scots-Irish culture. Country music, and especially bluegrass, is a direct descendant of celtic music.
From the Scots-irish come the American, and particularly Southern American, sense of egalitarianism, disdain for aristocracy, and tendency for combativeness. Most of our greatest militsry leaders, from Andrew Jackson to Patton, were Scots-Irish.
Read "Born Fighting: the Scots-Irish in America" by James Webb.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 12:31 am to Jim Rockford
Here is a good review of David Fishcer's Albion's Seed, which details the different British groups/cultures that settled/shaped the American colonies (Puritans, Cavaliers, Quakers, and Borderers [Scots-Irish])
quote:
The Borderers are usually called “the Scots-Irish”, but Fischer dislikes the term because they are neither Scots (as we usually think of Scots) nor Irish (as we usually think of Irish). Instead, they’re a bunch of people who lived on (both sides of) the Scottish-English border in the late 1600s.
quote:
None of this makes sense without realizing that the Scottish-English border was terrible. Every couple of years the King of England would invade Scotland or vice versa; “from the year 1040 to 1745, every English monarch but three suffered a Scottish invasion, or became an invader in his turn”. These “invasions” generally involved burning down all the border towns and killing a bunch of people there. Eventually the two sides started getting pissed with each other and would also torture-murder all of the enemy’s citizens they could get their hands on, ie any who were close enough to the border to reach before the enemy could send in their armies. As if this weren’t bad enough, outlaws quickly learned they could plunder one side of the border, then escape to the other before anyone brought them to justice, so the whole area basically became one giant cesspool of robbery and murder.
quote:
In response to these pressures, the border people militarized and stayed feudal long past the point where the rest of the island had started modernizing. Life consisted of farming the lands of whichever brutal warlord had the top hand today, followed by being called to fight for him on short notice, followed by a grisly death. The border people dealt with it as best they could, and developed a culture marked by extreme levels of clannishness, xenophobia, drunkenness, stubbornness, and violence.
quote:
Many of the Borderers fled to Ulster in Ireland, which England was working on colonizing as a Protestant bulwark against the Irish Catholics, and where the Crown welcomed violent warlike people as a useful addition to their Irish-Catholic-fighting project. But Ulster had some of the same problems as the Border, and also the Ulsterites started worrying that the Borderer cure was worse than the Irish Catholic disease. So the Borderers started getting kicked out of Ulster too, one thing led to another, and eventually 250,000 of these people ended up in America.
quote:
At the time, the Appalachians were kind of the booby prize of American colonization: hard to farm, hard to travel through, and exposed to hostile Indians. The Borderers fell in love with them. They came from a pretty marginal and unproductive territory themselves, and the Appalachians were far away from everybody and full of fun Indians to fight. Soon the Appalachian strategy became the accepted response to Borderer immigration and was taken up from Pennsylvania in the north to the Carolinas in the South (a few New Englanders hit on a similar idea and sent their own Borderers to colonize the mountains of New Hampshire).
quote:
3. The Borderers were mostly Presbyterians, and their arrival en masse started a race among the established American denominations to convert them. This was mostly unsuccessful; Anglican preacher Charles Woodmason, an important source for information about the early Borderers, said that during his missionary activity the Borderers “disrupted his service, rioted while he preached, started a pack of dogs fighting outside the church, loosed his horse, stole his church key, refused him food and shelter, and gave two barrels of whiskey to his congregation before a service of communion”.
quote:
13. Although the Borderers started off Presbyterian, they were in constant religious churn and their territories were full of revivals, camp meetings, born-again evangelicalism, and itinerant preachers. Eventually most of them ended up as what we now call Southern Baptist.
quote:
22. Scottish Presbyterians used to wear red cloth around their neck to symbolize their religion; other Englishmen nicknamed them “rednecks”. This may be the origin of the popular slur against Americans of Borderer descent, although many other etiologies have been proposed. “Cracker” as a slur is attested as early as 1766 by a colonist who says the term describes backcountry men who are great boasters; other proposed etymologies like slaves talking about “whip-crackers” seem to be spurious.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 1:34 am to BigOrangeBri
Why would I be standing while typing that?
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