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Message
A rant about medical practices and pharmaceuticals
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:04 pm
My 5 year old daughter was prescribed Flovent around 5 weeks ago to manage her asthmatic airways. She had a bad cold back in early November. She then had a lingering cough that persisted into December. Her pediatrician said she needed a maintenance inhaler and prescribed two puffs of Flovent twice a day.
We started seeing some behavior changes within the first few days. Just some tantrums that didn't seem appropriate for her age. My wife called the pediatrician's office and told the nurse who relayed the message to the doctor. We got a message back saying to continue the Flovent for asthma and that Flovent only treats the lungs. Any behavior issues wouldn't be connected to the Flovent.
Fast forward to January 6th and the behaviors had worsened. My sweet, calm, amicable daughter threw a two hour tantrum that was unmanageable. Nothing worked. She hit us repeatedly. Screamed at the top of her lungs. Threw objects at us. Destroyed her room. It got so bad we had to block the two doors inside her room to keep her from destroying the house. She screamed horrible things to us over and over again. That she doesn't love us and never loved us. It was pure insanity. Ten times worse than anything we had seen at age two or three.
She hadn't throw a major tantrum since around the time she turned four. But there we were, dealing with the worst tantrum imaginable at 5 and a half years old.
This continued every day, sometimes multiple times a day for 11 days. She said there were snakes chasing her. She would suddenly start screaming for us saying she needed to be held. She reverted back to sucking her thumb after not sucking her thumb since she turned 4.
We weaned her off the Flovent starting on the 6th. We called the pediatrician on the 8th to report what was going on. Again, they dismissed Flovent as causing it. They asked if there were any head injuries. Any trauma that had happened. I brought up that the side effects for Flovent list aggression, anxiety, irritability. I was told those were extremely rare, but if we wanted to stop the drug, we could. They suggested we try a smaller dose.
As of January 16th, the rage fits have subsided, but we're still dealing with oppositional defiance. My wife is a saint and has more patience than I could ever muster. Still though, this morning, my daughter disrupted the entire morning routine over some irrational issue.
Our pediatrician (at a large, popular practice in Birmingham BTW) dismissed our concerns. The list of side effects says this is rare. And maybe it is, but a little homework reveals some interesting things:
Flovent (and other inhaled corticosteroids) can reduce white matter in the brain. This was confirmed via MRI. It can also directly hinder the amygdala from functioning correctly leading to significant struggles with impulse control, fear ideation, and aggressive behaviors.
Askapatient has 20 years worth of patient reviews claiming severe behavior issues for kids taking Flovent. Nightmares, hallucinations, aggression, violence, anxiety, moodiness. 337 reviews, and the majority of them are concerning behavioral changes associated with the medication. Worth noting is that other inhaled medications for asthma (albuterol, Proventil, QVAR, Dulera) have no where near the number of reviews as Flovent.
But listen to your doctors. Trust the science. Take your meds.
We started seeing some behavior changes within the first few days. Just some tantrums that didn't seem appropriate for her age. My wife called the pediatrician's office and told the nurse who relayed the message to the doctor. We got a message back saying to continue the Flovent for asthma and that Flovent only treats the lungs. Any behavior issues wouldn't be connected to the Flovent.
Fast forward to January 6th and the behaviors had worsened. My sweet, calm, amicable daughter threw a two hour tantrum that was unmanageable. Nothing worked. She hit us repeatedly. Screamed at the top of her lungs. Threw objects at us. Destroyed her room. It got so bad we had to block the two doors inside her room to keep her from destroying the house. She screamed horrible things to us over and over again. That she doesn't love us and never loved us. It was pure insanity. Ten times worse than anything we had seen at age two or three.
She hadn't throw a major tantrum since around the time she turned four. But there we were, dealing with the worst tantrum imaginable at 5 and a half years old.
This continued every day, sometimes multiple times a day for 11 days. She said there were snakes chasing her. She would suddenly start screaming for us saying she needed to be held. She reverted back to sucking her thumb after not sucking her thumb since she turned 4.
We weaned her off the Flovent starting on the 6th. We called the pediatrician on the 8th to report what was going on. Again, they dismissed Flovent as causing it. They asked if there were any head injuries. Any trauma that had happened. I brought up that the side effects for Flovent list aggression, anxiety, irritability. I was told those were extremely rare, but if we wanted to stop the drug, we could. They suggested we try a smaller dose.
As of January 16th, the rage fits have subsided, but we're still dealing with oppositional defiance. My wife is a saint and has more patience than I could ever muster. Still though, this morning, my daughter disrupted the entire morning routine over some irrational issue.
Our pediatrician (at a large, popular practice in Birmingham BTW) dismissed our concerns. The list of side effects says this is rare. And maybe it is, but a little homework reveals some interesting things:
Flovent (and other inhaled corticosteroids) can reduce white matter in the brain. This was confirmed via MRI. It can also directly hinder the amygdala from functioning correctly leading to significant struggles with impulse control, fear ideation, and aggressive behaviors.
Askapatient has 20 years worth of patient reviews claiming severe behavior issues for kids taking Flovent. Nightmares, hallucinations, aggression, violence, anxiety, moodiness. 337 reviews, and the majority of them are concerning behavioral changes associated with the medication. Worth noting is that other inhaled medications for asthma (albuterol, Proventil, QVAR, Dulera) have no where near the number of reviews as Flovent.
But listen to your doctors. Trust the science. Take your meds.
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:07 pm to StringedInstruments
Wow that’s f*cked up man; if that were my kid, and it caused permanent damages(I hope they are not) , I would murder someone.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:10 pm to StringedInstruments
Take her off it. How bad is the asthma?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:10 pm to Warfox
quote:
Wow that’s f*cked up man; if that were my kid, and it caused permanent damages(I hope they are not) , I would murder someone.
I feel like it's gotten better. Or maybe we've gotten better at managing it.
We used to be a normal, firm set of parents. We have boundaries and rules and privileges. Cross boundaries, you get a consequence.
The past few weeks? No consequences. Redirection like she's two again. Any semblance of a consequence was sending her into a mode that I can't even describe accurately. It was honestly scary. And it all started suddenly after taking the medication.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:11 pm to StringedInstruments
Proventil is a great rescue inhaler and has been around forever. I've taken thousands of puffs over the years. Maybe introduce it and be vigilant in watching her reactions. I'm sorry your kiddo experienced this. Children don't deserve such anguish.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:12 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Take her off it. How bad is the asthma?
We did. Question is how long will the side effects last? If it did impact the white matter of her brain, can it be fixed? Does the elasticity of a kid's brain mean it will bounce back okay?
What asthma? That's the thing that has me pretty upset. She had a cold and a cough that lingered. They said she has asthma because of it. I mean, I guess she does but it wasn't debilitating. She wasn't unable to play or run or sleep. She just had a cough.
She hasn't had any coughing issues in the last few weeks of not taking the Flovent though.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:13 pm to Sao
quote:
Proventil is a great rescue inhaler and has been around forever. I've taken thousands of puffs over the years. Maybe introduce it and be vigilant in watching her reactions. I'm sorry your kiddo experienced this. Children don't deserve such anguish.
Same, but this was a steroid inhaler for maintenance. It doesn't rescue at all. Just introduces anti-inflammatories into the lungs to keep the airways clear.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:14 pm to StringedInstruments
She likely doesn't have bronchial asthma as we know it. Glad you took her off of it.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:20 pm to StringedInstruments
Singulair by mouth.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:25 pm to StringedInstruments
Dang my kid is on symbicort everyday. Don't like seeing this
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:31 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:quote:
Take her off it. How bad is the asthma?
We did. Question is how long will the side effects last? If it did impact the white matter of her brain, can it be fixed? Does the elasticity of a kid's brain mean it will bounce back okay?
Looking at the studies, I wouldn't get too concerned about it just yet. They were not very large to start with although that is understandable considering the criteria and this, within the actual study publication, suns it up.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/12/8/e062446
quote:
Strengths and limitations of this study
To the best of our knowledge, this is the largest study to date assessing the association between glucocorticoid use and brain structure, and the first to investigate these associations in inhaled glucocorticoid users.
Relatively strict exclusion criteria were used to limit the potential confounding that may arise in observational cohort studies.
However, the cross-sectional nature of this study precludes formal conclusions on causality.
Dose and duration of medication use were not available in the UK Biobank, making thorough analyses on dose-dependent or duration-dependent associations impossible
Just monitor your daughter and be patient with her. It is amazing what young children can bounce back from.
I don't know if this will matter to you but I will pray for things to get back to normal for your daughter.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:32 pm to StringedInstruments
Regrettably, I’ve seen that the medical community has become business first over the last decade or two. There are still some really good doctors out there, but it’s much more difficult to find those who are patient first than it used to be.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:32 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
Still though, this morning, my daughter disrupted the entire morning routine over some irrational issue.
Wait until you have a teenager
FWIW, I feel for you.
Your little one not being right, at any age, can tug on your heartstrings. Hopefully she makes a full recovery and you get to enjoy those wonderful years
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:38 pm to StringedInstruments
Gotta do your own research on meds, doctors usually just roll with medication side effects that are extended side effects of the medication's mechanism of action and downplay any other side effects (like BP meds causing hypotension/lightheadedness, etc..)
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:42 pm to StringedInstruments
Doctors got to get that commision from Big Pharma. Thats all they care about. The next vacation home. Your daughter is just a customer to the biggest drug dealer in the world and you introduced her to him...
Pharma = BAD!
Praying for you man.
Pharma = BAD!
Praying for you man.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:49 pm to John_V
Find an allergist who treats asthma in children or a pulmonologist.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:56 pm to StringedInstruments
Does this happen to be a children’s of alabama pediatrician?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 3:56 pm to StringedInstruments
The corticolimbic circuits affects all kinds of things such as sleep, anxiety and emotions. Flovent is typically well tolerated but people are wired different and some have crazy reactions. It could have been the meds, it could have been something else but if her behavior was that bad I wouldn't chance it again either.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 4:04 pm to schatman
quote:I can attest to Singulair. As a little kid (2-5) I dealt with really bad allergies that would require breathing treatments at least once per month. Got on Singulair and it helped dramatically. Took it until high school and never had to do another breathing treatment. I was never diagnosed with asthma.
Singulair by mouth.
Fast forward to later in college. I was working at a baseball facility that was ripping up and replacing entire turf infields. The dust was unmanageable and I went to the doctor because I was coughing and almost wheezing on a daily basis. They prescribed me a steroid inhaler and Singulair. Night and day difference.
I've been taking Singulair daily for about 7 years now and it makes things a million times better. Would definitely ask your doctor about it.
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