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re: Draft Talk
Posted on 12/13/12 at 8:24 am to blueslover
Posted on 12/13/12 at 8:24 am to blueslover
still trying to stir up some talk about sumpin other than bountyfarce...
Defensive Tackle
With Ellis all but gone another try for a game changing DT could happen. I like flying with Bunkley, Hicks, Johnson myself. The playmaking game changer needed up front could be in the middle though as a mid 1st Rd BPA out of these guys.-
John Jenkins, Georgia, 6-3, 350. He could be the Dontari Poe of this year’s draft. Jenkins is huge, but doesn’t always play to his size. As one talent evaluator said, “The No. 1 thing he is is big.” As a player, Jenkins is inconsistent. He flashes ability. He is a pure bull rusher with a strong lower body. He can hold the point well. He has explosive hands and can shed blockers. He is expected to test and run well and boost his stock, making people forget his tape.
Sheldon Richardson, Missouri, 6-3, 290. He is a good mix of size and athleticism, and can hold the point and rush a little. He is most effective over the guard, probably as a three technique. He also could play end in a 3-4. He has what it takes to become an NFL starter.
I count Hankins & Lotulelei as highly probable already gone by the Saints pick. Short seems to have very mixed reviews so far (like Richardson) as to his value round-wise. The rest don't look up to BPA range for the Saints.
Defensive Tackle
With Ellis all but gone another try for a game changing DT could happen. I like flying with Bunkley, Hicks, Johnson myself. The playmaking game changer needed up front could be in the middle though as a mid 1st Rd BPA out of these guys.-
John Jenkins, Georgia, 6-3, 350. He could be the Dontari Poe of this year’s draft. Jenkins is huge, but doesn’t always play to his size. As one talent evaluator said, “The No. 1 thing he is is big.” As a player, Jenkins is inconsistent. He flashes ability. He is a pure bull rusher with a strong lower body. He can hold the point well. He has explosive hands and can shed blockers. He is expected to test and run well and boost his stock, making people forget his tape.
Sheldon Richardson, Missouri, 6-3, 290. He is a good mix of size and athleticism, and can hold the point and rush a little. He is most effective over the guard, probably as a three technique. He also could play end in a 3-4. He has what it takes to become an NFL starter.
I count Hankins & Lotulelei as highly probable already gone by the Saints pick. Short seems to have very mixed reviews so far (like Richardson) as to his value round-wise. The rest don't look up to BPA range for the Saints.
1
Posted on 12/13/12 at 8:40 am to blueslover
quote:
I like flying with Bunkley, Hicks, Johnson myself
Same here Blu.
The stench of sullivan and to a much lesser extent ellis still lingers.
Hoping for DE and OLB with 1st two picks. I am in the camp that the Saints Org played it right and will get the #2 back.
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:10 am to goatmilker
quote:
will get the #2 back
Payton also gets reinstated as soon as the season is done and announces a new contract for 5 years at the same time
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:20 am to blueslover
Just watched 6 min of Ezekial(ziggy) Ansah DE from BYU.
And I thought Grambo was raw. The kid from Ghana just learned how to put on pads 3 years ago
How about a trade down in 1st round get some more pics and get this guy. His balance and speed are off the chart. You can see he needs more power but I bet no other player has more upside this year than Ziggy.
Sound familiar?
And I thought Grambo was raw. The kid from Ghana just learned how to put on pads 3 years ago
How about a trade down in 1st round get some more pics and get this guy. His balance and speed are off the chart. You can see he needs more power but I bet no other player has more upside this year than Ziggy.
Sound familiar?
This post was edited on 12/13/12 at 9:22 am
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:36 am to goatmilker
trading is always possible but nothing ya can really project IMO
As I put in the who to root for thread we're looking at-
5-11= usually about #6 pick
8-8= usually about the #16 pick
At 5-8 you could salivate over the possibilty of Werner, Montgomery, or Demontre Moore
At 16ish I'm not seeing the prototypical 4-3 DE pass rusher. Ansah is the next tier but looks like a reach that early. Dion Jordan, Mingo, & Jarvis Jones might be around. They look prototypical 3-4 OLB so their 4-3 fits have to be figured out. The Seahawks took Bruce Irvin (similar type) for a 4-3 and that has worked out (8 sacks).
As I put in the who to root for thread we're looking at-
5-11= usually about #6 pick
8-8= usually about the #16 pick
At 5-8 you could salivate over the possibilty of Werner, Montgomery, or Demontre Moore
At 16ish I'm not seeing the prototypical 4-3 DE pass rusher. Ansah is the next tier but looks like a reach that early. Dion Jordan, Mingo, & Jarvis Jones might be around. They look prototypical 3-4 OLB so their 4-3 fits have to be figured out. The Seahawks took Bruce Irvin (similar type) for a 4-3 and that has worked out (8 sacks).
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:14 pm to blueslover
gotsta have a couple of drataholics dragging through here don't we?
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:37 pm to Cajun Invasion
Jarvis Jones is INCREDIBLY overrated. 46 is about right for him.
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:39 pm to blueslover
I'm at least 'holic'.
Posted on 12/13/12 at 9:51 pm to goatmilker
I do some holictic therapy myself
scott wright's top 32 (Srs only) an established and recognized draft dude
1. Star Lotulelei
DT
Utah
Freakish blend of size, strength and athleticism, a la Haloti Ngata.
2. Manti Te'o
ILB
Notre Dame
Instinctive and hard-hitting with good range and a terrific motor.
3. Matt Barkley
QB
USC
Average physical tools but is polished, accurate and experienced.
4. Chance Warmack
OG
Alabama
Huge, powerful mauler excels as run blocker and pass protector.
5. Geno Smith
QB
West Virginia
Dynamic passer with very live arm and above average athleticism.
6. Johnathan Banks
CB
Mississippi St.
Tall cover guy with a nose for the ball and playmaking tendencies.
7. Dion Jordan
DE
Oregon
Athletic with a rangy frame and could play in an even or odd front.
8. Kawann Short
DT
Purdue
Massive and can be an impact presence but is a bit inconsistent.
9. Jonathan Cooper
OG
North Carolina
Athletic blocker with nimble feet who is outstanding on the move.
10. Ezekiel Ansah
DE
B.Y.U.
Native of Ghana is raw and inexperienced but upside is unlimited.
11. Eric Fisher
OT
Central Michigan
Big framed blocker with great athleticism in the mold of Joe Staley.
12. Sylvester Williams
DT
North Carolina
Explosive athlete with ability to play the three-technique or nose.
13. Kenny Vaccaro
S
Texas
Versatile defender with nice mix of physical tools and intangibles.
14. John Jenkins
DT
Georgia
Enormous 358-pound space-eater who can anchor in the middle.
15. Cornellius Carradine
DE
Florida St.
Former JUCO transfer is able to rush the passer and stop the run.
16. Mike Glennon
QB
North Carolina St.
Inconsistent pocket passer with fantastic size and arm strength.
17. T.J. McDonald
S
USC
Big and athletic with a well-rounded skill set and pro bloodlines.
18. Arthur Brown
OLB
Kansas St.
Undersized but fast, quick and explosive with exceptional range.
19. Terrance Williams
WR
Baylor
Smooth athlete with very good size, body control and ball skills.
20. Montee Ball
RB
Wisconsin
Productive workhorse with superb vision, patience and instincts.
21. Tavon Austin
WR
West Virginia
Explosive jack-of-all-trades who is a threat to score at any time.
22. Tyler Wilson
QB
Arkansas
Gunslinger who can make all of the throws but lacks ideal height.
23. Jesse Williams
DT
Alabama
Underrated with terrific size, strength, athleticism and versatility.
24. Khaled Holmes
C
USC
Explosive, powerful pivot with all of the tools to start at next level.
25. Michael Buchanan
DE
Illinois
Rangy athlete with a burst may be better than Whitney Mercilus.
26. Barrett Jones
C
Alabama
Reigning Outland Trophy winner can play center, guard or tackle.
27. Rick Wagner
OT
Wisconsin
Not overly athletic but a big, strong, tough right tackle prospect.
28. Alex Okafor
DE
Texas
Solid two-way player versus pass and run but not overly dynamic.
29. E.J. Manuel
QB
Florida St.
Raw but athletic dual-threat with a large frame and a strong arm.
30. Dallas Thomas
OT
Tennessee
Athletic with a large frame and could project to tackle or guard.
31. Jordan Poyer
CB
Oregon St.
Average size / speed but good coverage skills and is a ballhawk.
32. Andre Ellington
RB
Clemson
Undersized but super fast and a dangerous situational weapon.
scott wright's top 32 (Srs only) an established and recognized draft dude
1. Star Lotulelei
DT
Utah
Freakish blend of size, strength and athleticism, a la Haloti Ngata.
2. Manti Te'o
ILB
Notre Dame
Instinctive and hard-hitting with good range and a terrific motor.
3. Matt Barkley
QB
USC
Average physical tools but is polished, accurate and experienced.
4. Chance Warmack
OG
Alabama
Huge, powerful mauler excels as run blocker and pass protector.
5. Geno Smith
QB
West Virginia
Dynamic passer with very live arm and above average athleticism.
6. Johnathan Banks
CB
Mississippi St.
Tall cover guy with a nose for the ball and playmaking tendencies.
7. Dion Jordan
DE
Oregon
Athletic with a rangy frame and could play in an even or odd front.
8. Kawann Short
DT
Purdue
Massive and can be an impact presence but is a bit inconsistent.
9. Jonathan Cooper
OG
North Carolina
Athletic blocker with nimble feet who is outstanding on the move.
10. Ezekiel Ansah
DE
B.Y.U.
Native of Ghana is raw and inexperienced but upside is unlimited.
11. Eric Fisher
OT
Central Michigan
Big framed blocker with great athleticism in the mold of Joe Staley.
12. Sylvester Williams
DT
North Carolina
Explosive athlete with ability to play the three-technique or nose.
13. Kenny Vaccaro
S
Texas
Versatile defender with nice mix of physical tools and intangibles.
14. John Jenkins
DT
Georgia
Enormous 358-pound space-eater who can anchor in the middle.
15. Cornellius Carradine
DE
Florida St.
Former JUCO transfer is able to rush the passer and stop the run.
16. Mike Glennon
QB
North Carolina St.
Inconsistent pocket passer with fantastic size and arm strength.
17. T.J. McDonald
S
USC
Big and athletic with a well-rounded skill set and pro bloodlines.
18. Arthur Brown
OLB
Kansas St.
Undersized but fast, quick and explosive with exceptional range.
19. Terrance Williams
WR
Baylor
Smooth athlete with very good size, body control and ball skills.
20. Montee Ball
RB
Wisconsin
Productive workhorse with superb vision, patience and instincts.
21. Tavon Austin
WR
West Virginia
Explosive jack-of-all-trades who is a threat to score at any time.
22. Tyler Wilson
QB
Arkansas
Gunslinger who can make all of the throws but lacks ideal height.
23. Jesse Williams
DT
Alabama
Underrated with terrific size, strength, athleticism and versatility.
24. Khaled Holmes
C
USC
Explosive, powerful pivot with all of the tools to start at next level.
25. Michael Buchanan
DE
Illinois
Rangy athlete with a burst may be better than Whitney Mercilus.
26. Barrett Jones
C
Alabama
Reigning Outland Trophy winner can play center, guard or tackle.
27. Rick Wagner
OT
Wisconsin
Not overly athletic but a big, strong, tough right tackle prospect.
28. Alex Okafor
DE
Texas
Solid two-way player versus pass and run but not overly dynamic.
29. E.J. Manuel
QB
Florida St.
Raw but athletic dual-threat with a large frame and a strong arm.
30. Dallas Thomas
OT
Tennessee
Athletic with a large frame and could project to tackle or guard.
31. Jordan Poyer
CB
Oregon St.
Average size / speed but good coverage skills and is a ballhawk.
32. Andre Ellington
RB
Clemson
Undersized but super fast and a dangerous situational weapon.
This post was edited on 12/14/12 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 12/14/12 at 1:08 pm to blueslover
5-11 #6ish pick to 8-8 #16 range and I can't stir any draftniks yet 
This post was edited on 12/15/12 at 10:14 am
Posted on 12/14/12 at 5:07 pm to blueslover
1, 4, 3, 2
If we go OT/DT/CB with our first pick, I like the idea of taking a shot on Carradine in the second (I'm confident that we get the pick back and maybe have a mid-rounder taken away). I'm definitely on board with Bunkley and Hicks as our starting DTs, and I think there's a bit of a drop off after Werner, Moore, and Jarvis Jones at the DE position in terms of greater risk (Dion Jordan, Ansah, Mingo) or lower reward (Montgomery), so I'd look at Milliner or Lewan if they're available. If not, I wouldn't mind trading down 5-10 spots(3-4 team looking to get John Jenkins?) and getting the best DE available at that point. Maybe Eric Fisher (LT, Central Michigan) who looks really good on film, plus we knock those small school OL picks out of the park.
If we go OT/DT/CB with our first pick, I like the idea of taking a shot on Carradine in the second (I'm confident that we get the pick back and maybe have a mid-rounder taken away). I'm definitely on board with Bunkley and Hicks as our starting DTs, and I think there's a bit of a drop off after Werner, Moore, and Jarvis Jones at the DE position in terms of greater risk (Dion Jordan, Ansah, Mingo) or lower reward (Montgomery), so I'd look at Milliner or Lewan if they're available. If not, I wouldn't mind trading down 5-10 spots(3-4 team looking to get John Jenkins?) and getting the best DE available at that point. Maybe Eric Fisher (LT, Central Michigan) who looks really good on film, plus we knock those small school OL picks out of the park.
Posted on 12/16/12 at 2:19 pm to THRILLHO
I really hope we do NOT take a DT in the 1st rd! I'm good with Bunkley(restructured), Hicks, and Johnson. Walker showed promise in the preseason but still unproven. I'm sticking with DE or CB in 1st rd. Bjoern Werner or Dion Jordan/ Xavier Rhodes.
Posted on 12/16/12 at 2:24 pm to blueslover
What do asterisks stand for?
Posted on 12/16/12 at 2:43 pm to blueslover
quote:
I dunno if I call the Combine a game changer. From what I have read most count it as 20% on the high end of how a player is evaluated- and more commonly 10%.
I was just pointing out, that there always seems to be that one guy, each year, who vaults himself into 1st round status or top 15 even, off the strength of a strong combine showing. I'm pretty sure Dontari Poe was not a first round pick before the combine. Same with Chris Johnson.
This post was edited on 12/16/12 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 12/16/12 at 3:59 pm to Pectus
quote:
What do asterisks stand for?
underclassmen, lower down the list some might not declare in efforts to boost their stock towards 2014. The highest one I've seen question about is Mosley.
Posted on 12/16/12 at 4:01 pm to blueslover
God I hope we get one of those 4, but as we keep winning that chance continues to dwindle
Posted on 12/17/12 at 11:16 am to Brettesaurus Rex
My early take is that Werner, Jones*, & Moore will all go in the top 10- not too probable for the Saints IMO. Saints currently sit at #14. 2 losses could get to the #7-10 range. 2 wins will push to #16-18.
Montgomery looks like the most likely highest rated pass rusher that could be a possible option. His tape for the year was good but not quite up to preseason expectations. Texas AM LT Jockel (who could be the #1 overall) completely shut him down. He had a solid game against Alabama's Fluker who looks to be mid-2nd Rd at the latest.
*still some injury concerns about Jones. Still also yet to be seen if he could be a real NFL 4-3 DE. He might be limited to 3-4 OLB consideration unless he can perform as well with another 10lbs added.
HERE is a recent mock that I think is pretty good as to how players draft stock stands currently-
1. Kansas City Chiefs - * OT Luke Joeckel 6’6” 310 (Texas A&M)
2. Jacksonville Jaguars – * DE Bjoern Werner 6’4” 255 (Florida State)
3. Oakland Raiders – DT Star Lotulelei 6’3” 320 (Utah)
4. Philadelphia Eagles – * DE/LB Damontre Moore 6’4” 250 (Texas A&M)
5. Carolina Panthers - * DT Johnathan Hankins 6’3” 322 (Ohio State)
6. San Diego Chargers – * LB Jarvis Jones 6’3” 241 (Georgia)
7. Cleveland Browns – * DE Sam Montgomery 6’5” 260 (LSU)
8. Detroit Lions – * CB Dee Milliner 6’1” 199 (Alabama)
9. Arizona Cardinals – * OT Taylor Lewan 6’7” 309 (Michigan)
10. Tennessee Titans – DE/LB Dion Jordan 6’6” 241 (Oregon)
11. Buffalo Bills – QB Geno Smith 6’3” 220 (West Virginia)
12. Miami Dolphins – * WR Cordarrelle Patterson 6’3” 205 (Tennessee)
13. New Orleans Saints – * DE/LB Barkevious Mingo 6’5” 240 (LSU)
77. New Orleans Saints - QB EJ Manuel 6’4” 240 (Florida State)
disagree with a 3rd Rd QB but think the two picks right before would be ideal-
LB Gerald Hodges Penn St
LB Sean Porter Tex AM
Montgomery looks like the most likely highest rated pass rusher that could be a possible option. His tape for the year was good but not quite up to preseason expectations. Texas AM LT Jockel (who could be the #1 overall) completely shut him down. He had a solid game against Alabama's Fluker who looks to be mid-2nd Rd at the latest.
*still some injury concerns about Jones. Still also yet to be seen if he could be a real NFL 4-3 DE. He might be limited to 3-4 OLB consideration unless he can perform as well with another 10lbs added.
HERE is a recent mock that I think is pretty good as to how players draft stock stands currently-
1. Kansas City Chiefs - * OT Luke Joeckel 6’6” 310 (Texas A&M)
2. Jacksonville Jaguars – * DE Bjoern Werner 6’4” 255 (Florida State)
3. Oakland Raiders – DT Star Lotulelei 6’3” 320 (Utah)
4. Philadelphia Eagles – * DE/LB Damontre Moore 6’4” 250 (Texas A&M)
5. Carolina Panthers - * DT Johnathan Hankins 6’3” 322 (Ohio State)
6. San Diego Chargers – * LB Jarvis Jones 6’3” 241 (Georgia)
7. Cleveland Browns – * DE Sam Montgomery 6’5” 260 (LSU)
8. Detroit Lions – * CB Dee Milliner 6’1” 199 (Alabama)
9. Arizona Cardinals – * OT Taylor Lewan 6’7” 309 (Michigan)
10. Tennessee Titans – DE/LB Dion Jordan 6’6” 241 (Oregon)
11. Buffalo Bills – QB Geno Smith 6’3” 220 (West Virginia)
12. Miami Dolphins – * WR Cordarrelle Patterson 6’3” 205 (Tennessee)
13. New Orleans Saints – * DE/LB Barkevious Mingo 6’5” 240 (LSU)
77. New Orleans Saints - QB EJ Manuel 6’4” 240 (Florida State)
disagree with a 3rd Rd QB but think the two picks right before would be ideal-
LB Gerald Hodges Penn St
LB Sean Porter Tex AM
This post was edited on 12/17/12 at 11:40 am
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:30 pm to blueslover
quote:
Still also yet to be seen if he could be a real NFL 4-3 DE
You threw it out there, but do you think he can? I was discussing this with a few buddies like a week ago, mainly because I was trying to find a reason that we as a 4-3 team could take him, if he slipped. I think he could but it would definitely be a specialty role the first year or two. I also think he'd probably work best in the fashion that we deploy Tez at times. In which, we have a 4-3 alignment and Tez is at either end slot, but we allow to rush standing up. I'm no expert, so I don't know if thats just a preference thing and an end can do that when they feel. But, it seems that Tez feels more comfortable and maybe that could be the same with Jarvis.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 2:21 pm to Fleur de Diable
here's a balanced sounding scouting report-
Currently considered a lock for the Top 5, Jones is a natural pass-rusher that projects as a 3-4 OLB at the next level.
Jones' best attributes are a good first step, agility in tight spaces, and tremendous body control. While he may not have that desired Von Miller explosion off the line, not many do. The true junior has a wide array of swim and rip moves in his arsenal. He should be able to stay on the field on all three downs due to solid coverage skills and enough speed to play sideline to sideline. Tackling is not an issue. He wraps well, but sometimes leaves his feet in an attempt to make a big hit. When tracking the ball carrier, he takes good lines and has a nice short area burst to close the gap.
Bigger offensive linemen are going to give Jones trouble though. His lack of bulk through his midsection and trunk do not give him much power to bull rush. He will have to rely heavily on speed to beat blockers to the edge. As a consequence, Jones will sometimes find himself out of position on counters, draws, or runs designed to exploit his pass rush lines. He will have to continue to bulk up and learn how to effectively use his hands and extend his arms to drive blockers and keep an arm free in his pass rush.
Even though the 6'3", 241 lb. star has some shortcomings, his athletic ability and well-rounded game make him a clear-cut blue chip NFL prospect.
--------------------
pretty much agree with all that. He could turn into a 4-3 DE if gaining 10+ lbs. That is a huge question mark to insert into his equation though. Montgomery gained a few pounds and now is more of a surefire DE even if not as dynamic as Jones.
Currently considered a lock for the Top 5, Jones is a natural pass-rusher that projects as a 3-4 OLB at the next level.
Jones' best attributes are a good first step, agility in tight spaces, and tremendous body control. While he may not have that desired Von Miller explosion off the line, not many do. The true junior has a wide array of swim and rip moves in his arsenal. He should be able to stay on the field on all three downs due to solid coverage skills and enough speed to play sideline to sideline. Tackling is not an issue. He wraps well, but sometimes leaves his feet in an attempt to make a big hit. When tracking the ball carrier, he takes good lines and has a nice short area burst to close the gap.
Bigger offensive linemen are going to give Jones trouble though. His lack of bulk through his midsection and trunk do not give him much power to bull rush. He will have to rely heavily on speed to beat blockers to the edge. As a consequence, Jones will sometimes find himself out of position on counters, draws, or runs designed to exploit his pass rush lines. He will have to continue to bulk up and learn how to effectively use his hands and extend his arms to drive blockers and keep an arm free in his pass rush.
Even though the 6'3", 241 lb. star has some shortcomings, his athletic ability and well-rounded game make him a clear-cut blue chip NFL prospect.
--------------------
pretty much agree with all that. He could turn into a 4-3 DE if gaining 10+ lbs. That is a huge question mark to insert into his equation though. Montgomery gained a few pounds and now is more of a surefire DE even if not as dynamic as Jones.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 2:22 pm to blueslover
A Montgomery comparative scouting report-
LSU's Sam Montgomery is a versatile defensive end prospect who can play either the 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB spots. Although his best attributes are his strength, toughness, and run defense, Montgomery is a legit pass-rusher as well who should hear his name called in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft.
The 6'5", 260 lb. junior plays with good pad level and drives into blockers to collapse the pocket. He plays in the backfield with a high motor and can clog running lanes. His active hands can push around opponents and put himself into position to make a play on the ball. Projects best as a 4-3 DE, assuming he continues to add bulk.
Not a true speed pass rusher as he relies more on strength to bully his way to the quarterback. Great body control off the edge and can turn a blocker around. Montgomery can reset his hips well to maintain leverage and drive with his lower body.
After the season is over, scouts will want to see his explosion off the line and short area quickness. There are very few concerns about his run support, only questions whether he has a well-rounded game that translates to the next level. The 3-4 teams are also going to evaluate whether he can play OLB in their systems.
Montgomery has a great motor and really appears to love the game. His commitment to the game should carry him to having a good career.
LSU's Sam Montgomery is a versatile defensive end prospect who can play either the 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB spots. Although his best attributes are his strength, toughness, and run defense, Montgomery is a legit pass-rusher as well who should hear his name called in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft.
The 6'5", 260 lb. junior plays with good pad level and drives into blockers to collapse the pocket. He plays in the backfield with a high motor and can clog running lanes. His active hands can push around opponents and put himself into position to make a play on the ball. Projects best as a 4-3 DE, assuming he continues to add bulk.
Not a true speed pass rusher as he relies more on strength to bully his way to the quarterback. Great body control off the edge and can turn a blocker around. Montgomery can reset his hips well to maintain leverage and drive with his lower body.
After the season is over, scouts will want to see his explosion off the line and short area quickness. There are very few concerns about his run support, only questions whether he has a well-rounded game that translates to the next level. The 3-4 teams are also going to evaluate whether he can play OLB in their systems.
Montgomery has a great motor and really appears to love the game. His commitment to the game should carry him to having a good career.
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